BPD

[captainkeefy]

Hi there Buttercup,

I'm on Citalopram. Although I don't think it's working for my low moods, I have found my anxiety has gone and I was having a lot of headaches which seem to have stopped mostly. I've noticed my confidence has gone up a bit. I don't know if these have Anything to do with the AD but these problems have been going on a while and seemed to have stopped at once, although another factor which coul have played a part is I've stopped drinking coffee which would probably stop all these things.

How's things your end?

[Buttercup]

I think citalopram is meant to do something for anxiety. Tell your GP that you don't think it's doing much for your low mood.

I'm muddling along! I see my support worker most weeks & GP/psychiatrist as needed.

[captainkeefy]

It says on the instructions that low doses are for anxiety, higher doses are for low moods. I'm presuming that they want to see how I respond before they up the dose. I must admit I don't feel low all the time, I tend to have a dip for a few hours, sometimes not everyday but they tend to last a few hours. I've noticed I can soul search better when my mood is low.

A lot of what I've read about HPD, if someone reads it makes it sound like people with HPD are consciously doing these things, I tend to do a lot of the stuff I've read and 'exaggerate expressions of emotions' is something that stood out. But if your feeling of self worth is regulated by other people and they critise you, I get bad bouts of depression from this. So it might seem to other people like I'm dramatic but I'd like to say how would anyone respond to someone who made them feel really depressed? Same with praise, tends to make me feel like I'm a great person. Some things make me cringe and laugh, here's one for a giggle 'Grand entrances' I walked into a sports hall with about 15 parents and their kids at shouted 'Ta-Da' like now the parties started because I'm here.

I'm going to discuss this with my Therapist, I found a list of 75 traits and I can see most of them or my wife has pointed out to me. I originally went there professing to be narsassitic but narsassists aren't vulnerable to criticism. I think histrionics could be a personality that swings from narsasistic to borderline, that's my theory anyway. Wouldn't someone who swings from narsasistic to Borderline be emotionally exhausting?

[Buttercup]

Hmmmm I don't know a lot about HPD but what you have wrote makes sense. It's difficult to regulate your own mood when it's determined by the actions of others. I think that therapy should give you strategies to lesson this effect, well if you had it frequently enough, but I guess you need the official diagnosis first. On that note I think it's a really good idea to go with your list. They really do seem to be dragging their heals over this one, which isn't fair on you.

My depressions etc last weeks & it's more the other way around, in that if I'm down I will really dwell on the actions of others.

[captainkeefy]

Yeah Buttercup you are right about learning the lessons to deal with it. I had quite a talk with my wife before and she even said I should ask for an appointment with a psychiatrist if I have no luck with my therapist, but I think C.B.T. helps with it anyway. I just find that when I'm in Therapy I make it all about me, my Therapist has to sit there and listen, obviously I need to shut up and listen.

My wife came out with a lot of things she said I need to change before and a lot of what she said where actual traits of HPD. Before I read about it I would have denied these behaviours and now I think wow I've spotted something and she's pointing out the rest. Next time I see my therapist I'm going to ask him to seriously consider this. I think that my mum might be HPD, she shows a lot of signs. It says that children of HPD parents grow up finally wanting to be seen, heard and understood (for me I think they have manifested in HPD traits) and an expectation that their needs won't be met (I think this would be my avoidant trait) the avoidant trait I see in myself is a feeling of unworthiness. Maybe this is the thing from HPD that says uncomfortable in situations where they are not the centre of attention. If I'm not centre of attention I feel worthless and get really frustrated. I have day where I'm confident then I'm centre of attention and days where I'm really quiet and avoid people but that is when I feel worthless and hate myself. I also noticed in my therapy session with my wife a lot of the talk was HPD based. Exaggerated emotions, being dramatic, easily influenced by people, attention seeking, sensitive to critism and forming unhealthy attachments to people and all this was my Wife and Therapists words. I really want this to be considered as I personally think it would be diagnosable.

[Buttercup]

I don't know if your therapist would be able to diagnose it, it may well be the case that a psychiatrist has too. That's how it is with bipolar anyway. My GP told me she suspected it but only the psych could diagnose it.

I think if I were you I'd have a chat with your GP.

[captainkeefy]

Hi Buttercup,

Thanks for all your replies, honestly I can't tell you how good it is to have your replies. I was reading about Bi-Polar last night. I didn't realise but with Bi-Polar your feelings of self worth can go from worthlessness to grandiose. This is something I'm going to bear in mind. I took a general mental health test last night and I got flagged in 5 categories general coping, mania, smoking, relationship and borderline traits. Then it advised me doing specific tests for Bi-Polar and it said type 2 Bi-Polar is likely and it said on the BPD test that severe borderline personality likely which was quite upsetting really as I felt I was minimising my answers. I've even asked my Therapist if he thought I was borderline and he said no, I agree with him but will admit I do behave the same with abandonment, my wife has said that she feels guilty going the shop.

I hope Catb comes back soon, I've really enjoyed talking to her too. When Catb posts I can really relate to what she writes and it's nice reading her posts. I'd like to know a bit more about her diagnosis. I've read that Bi-Polar has to be observed over 2 years before its diagnosable. I wish I'd been the doctors a lot more when I was having problems, rather than getting on with it. Maybe I would have got somewhere by now. I got to the point where I felt I couldn't cope anymore in life and then looked for help. Now I feel the G.P. and T are playing things down which kind of makes it worse. I might ask for the G.P. who referred me for Therapy as she was a lot more understanding and didn't use comments that minimised what I was saying. My G.P. says things like "everyone gets stressed now and then." "There's a lot of depression going round." I felt like saying "Ah, I must of caught it on the train!" Lol.

I'm wondering if other people see it as an uphill battle against the N.H.S.? I get the feeling sometimes that I'd have to do something stupid before I get taken serious. Then I think why should I? Punishing myself to prove a point is stupid. I admitted to my therapist I'd had thoughts of self harm and that I'd done it before and he didn't even reply, just changed the subject then cancelled the next appointment. It's the fact that I have kids and want them to have a structured environment that stops me doing these things. My Therapist said that depression is caused by 3 things feeling of 'I am worthless' people make me feel like this really easy. 'No one cares about me' my friends don't keep in touch and my family and the N.H.S. seem dismissive with me and 'Nothing can change' For the first time in my life I realise that my abandonment issue causes me to pull apart anything constructive I do, my wife tells me she's had enough and Therapist keeps cancelling. I'd say logically these are strong enough reasons to cause depression. Hopefully I can get a positive response from my G.P.

[captainkeefy]

Okay, thought I'd do a test this morning as I'm feeling quite good today:-



Paranoid   ||||||||||||||||   62%   50%
Schizoid   ||||||   26%   40%
Schizotypal   ||||||||||||   50%   56%
Antisocial   ||||||||||   34%   46%
Borderline   ||||||||||||||   54%   45%
Histrionic   ||||||||||||||||||||   90%   35%
Narcissistic   ||||||||||||||||   62%   40%
Avoidant   ||||||||||||   46%   48%
Dependent   ||||||||||||||   58%   44%
Obsessive-Compulsive   ||||||||||||   50%   45%

[Catbrian]

Hi guys  +-_

That is a nice thing for you to say in your last post, CaptK, especially at the moment, when I am feeling worthless.  You have really made me laugh today.  The last time I looked “down below”, I had a ‘little man’ and not a ‘little lady’!!!

 I have actually been around the Forum these past few days, keeping track of what people say.  However, sometimes my entire emotional state is completely dumb and, unbelievably, I have difficulty finding the words to write.  I am calling this my “dead-cycles” because that’s exactly what I feel like. 

Before the PD diagnosis, I did put these phases down to depression.  Now I see them strongly connecting with cluster A of PD.  The suspicious and paranoid thought processes are particularly potent and I usually feel emotionally cold, preferring my own company.  I have difficulty thinking straight and can have eccentric and odd thoughts and some strange behaviour.  Unfortunately, these are all consistent with the Cluster A headings of Paranoia, Schizoid, and Schizotypal

People have difficulty understanding the extent of our debilitating depressive symptoms.  I think this is because they commonly misinterpret depression, in general.  Most people, at some point in their life, have had experience of mild depression.  They mistakenly interpret our acute illness as being similar to theirs.  If we were lucky enough to suffer mild symptoms of depression, then we too could “pull ourselves together” or “just get on with it”.  It must be frustrating for our loved ones to view our circumstances like this; to believe we are capable of “soldiering on”.  Rather than feel upset, I suppose we should be grateful they would never fully understand our personal hell.

CaptK, I think the way your therapist has been conducting himself is not very good.  What benefit monthly sessions are to anyone in the initial stages of therapy, I will never understand.  But, to then cancel appointments and not give you another asap, is taking the p1ss.  This is how my last Psychiatrist conducts his business and I can understand how frustrating it must feel. 

I agree with what BC said a few posts ago, Therapists or even GP’s are not qualified to make MH diagnosis.  IMO, they are not qualified to discuss this with the “client”, unless of course, they are echoing what a Psychiatrist is saying.  Take this advice from someone who has been through similar experiences with HIS CMHT, request an assessment by the Consultant Psychiatrist.  Not only will you benefit from an official diagnosis, I believe you would enjoy the whole process.  As part of that assessment, the Psychiatrist will give recommendations for treatment and will refer you onto whatever kind of therapy you will benefit from.  I feel you will get a lot from a more intense period of therapeutic care.

[captainkeefy]

Hi Catb,

Emotionally numb, again another thing I understand. I feel something I would call apathetic sometimes. I'm not interested in other people's problems. I guess I would come across as having no empathy or sympathy, oh well.

I thought from your name it was Catherine? Oops! With you not posting for a few days I now feel. Oh yeah my best mate in the whole worlds back! (Trait!?!)  Oh and my mood is getting very elated  ^&^ definite attachment issue!

I think I'm going to ask if I can see a psychiatrist. I saw one in the Army, refused treatment and was discharged with mild depression. I don't think mild depression has an episode of self harm in it? I'm currently considering the fact that I might be a pain in the backside during therapy. But honestly I will let him get a word in soon, I swear! I found a list of thing Histrionic people think, check this out...

...that you are minimizing everything, and it's not fair.

...that an acquaintance is a friend.

...that it's always their turn to talk, to be heard, and to be assisted.

...that if they get the sniffles, it is terminal.

*cringing* I must admit I'm guilty of these a lot. I know a PD is a serious problem but some of the things I read make me cringe and laugh.

Okay, my post is starting to show I'm getting a little Over Excited! I'm going to be serious now. As I said I've got to a point in life where I've really had enough of my behaviour. It's destroying my marriage at times, I can't hold down a job because I get really bored and frustrated and feel I don't get the appreciation I deserve. My social life I feel people don't bother that much with me, I tend to try and out do people at times. So I guess they get fed up with it. How would I go about get an evaluation off a psychiatrist? Speak to my therapist or G.P. I feel like they would get annoyed with me for asking. I originally went for help in October and am not getting far. I really think if I got a diagnosis it would be a wake up call as I'm taking my situation lightly at times and other times I'm struggling with it. This is a Trait of HPD to being unable to see the situation from a realistic perspective. I can't see how you can though, I read about emotion amnesia which is a good way of putting things as I don't tend to forget how I felt a lot. When I'm feeling something I can explain it strongly, when I'm no I say dunno?

[Catbrian]

I doubt the Therapist will think you are a pain in the backside.  You should be doing most of the talking.  Neither GP nor Therapist will be annoyed if you ask for a referral to a Psychiatrist for assessment.  I would think the GP is the best person to ask first.  They can only see it as positive that you are showing motivation to get to grips with things.

It’s odd, I did score high for HPD but I cannot identify with most of those traits.  What you wrote in the last post about how HPD think, meant nothing.

I have been living with severe symptoms of PD for years, but have been able to cover this up, appearing to be warmer, more interested and compassionate than I truly feel.  I think the recognition of certain traits should bring about a need in us to strive for change.  It would be unhealthy if I were to simply accept I was emotionally cold and then just exert that side of my personality without trying to be interested in other people; at the very least, pretending.

Getting our feet under the table of the MH teams does take a lot of time and patience.  This is our illness and chance of recovery.  It pays to persevere and push for what you need.

It’s been an eventful day and I need an early night.  I will catch up with things tomorrow

[Buttercup]

Hi CaptainK

I agree with Catb, I don't think either would mind but I'd ask the GP first.

Yes my feelings of self worth can go from feeling awful, like I'm the last b person anyone would want to be around, I'm useless etc to grandiose, which for me tends to take the form that I am just about better than everyone else etc. it's an interesting mix.

My bp was diagnosed relatively quickly. I'd had symptoms for years but had done nothing then had a mini breakdown at work & went to my GP who started treating me for depression. I saw her every couple of weeks & she read between the lines & suggested bipolar. In the mean time the ads sent me high& I saw the psychiatrist who confirmed 3 days later.

Off to bed now xxx

[captainkeefy]

Really interesting post from you there Catb. I'm going to see my G.P. next week. I will speak to her about how my C.B.T. is going, she did ask me for an update obviously he cancelled my next appointment, I think I will be totally honest with her and tell her that when he cancels that its having a big impact on my moods and feelings of self worth. As I say it's even taken me to the point of thinking of self harming to prove I'm feeling this bad. I won't do it though as I have children and I really don't want that type of behavior around them but it does concern me that it's springing to mind at times.

I read the diagnosis criteria for BPD and would say I have a few that I would say are notable:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is called "splitting."

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. (Although I wouldn't say markedly.)

There are a few that I think are I feel slightly but to diagnose it needs to be strong.

However with HPD I would say I would instantly meet 6 of the criteria and the other two I tend to do from time to time.

Night everyone!

  

[captainkeefy]

My plan of action today, I'm going to find something constructive to do when I'm feeling impulsive instead of trying to diagnose myself. This probably causes more harm than good. Any good ideas?

[Catbrian]

I think you should speak to the GP and Therapist about the impact the cancellations have on you.  It is imperative for anyone in therapy to feel the sessions are important and valuable.  Cancelling or taking calls is not appropriate.  You also need a bit more input than once per month.  The GP will understand this.

Through my recent internet research and posting on here, I am developing a good understanding of PD and, more importantly, how it affects my life.

My original diagnosis was under cluster B, Emotionally Unstable/Borderline.  Since then, I also score high for Histrionic.  I suppose I do identify with some of those traits, but not as much as Borderline.

What does trouble me, is the part of my character that emerges occasionally.  The part of my personality that isn’t the Mr Nice-compassionate-understanding-Guy. 

I struggle to accept this side of my personality; the side that usually causes problems amongst close friends, relationships and especially with family.  The symptoms of cluster A, perfectly portrays my problems

Paranoid:  Suspicious, feeling people are being indirectly nasty, which can easily lead to feeling rejection and holding grudges.
Schizoid:  Emotionally cold, don’t like contact, preferring own company
Schizotypal:  Eccentric with odd ideas, difficulty thinking straight, and a severe lack of emotion

A blessing is that I only have bouts of cluster A, and most of it takes place inside my head.  Whereas cluster B, is a consistent part of me.

This thread has meant a great deal to me.  It is helping understand and come to terms with PD.  There are two NHS services specifically for people with PD, but I need to put a car on the road to be able to travel to them 2-3 times per week for 18 months.  They sound excellent and I imagine they will prove invaluable.