Serotonin Theory of Depression

[SteveW]

A little on the serotonin theory of depression pointing out that is a theory not established fact. My feeling is that the truth value of the theory is somewhere between incomplete and frankly wrong.

 http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/charting-the-depths/201007/the-serotonin-theory-depression-is-collapsing

[Ezel]

I started to read the article but I'm tired so I'm going to read it properly in the morning.

[Zaf]

Personally antidepressants work for me so I'm happy to keep taking them however they work - I'd very much like to know if the writer of the article has any vested interests in discrediting the current theories how we get depression and the way we attempt to cure it and more a more substantial article with these new theories before I'll stop believing the serotonin connection.

[SteveW]

So far as I know he is an independent academic-Professor of Psychology at the University of Florida I think. You can't really ignore theory.Development of new anti-depressants depends on it. They aren't developed at random but on the basis of some underlying theory of depression. I'm glad anti-depressants work for you but they don't for a lot of people.I wont go into the details but they are a very inefficient set of drugs. Better drugs require better theory.

[SteveW]

To cover your argument ad hominem I thought I'd supply a second critique. This is more technical, although it still doesn't cover quite a lot of what depression is about.

 http://neuroscientificallychallenged.blogspot.com/2008/04/serotonin-hypothesis-and-neurogenesis.html

[Zaf]

I'll have to read it when I get home from work Steve,  I would agree that any advance in treating depression would be very welcome.

[Buttercup]

I have to say that ssri work for me to an extent, but I'm a lot better with than without.
I think depression is a very complex and little understood illness, as we're not all the same and are exposed to different environmental factors it may be that the serotonin theory applies to some but not all, much in the same way as antibiotics, different ones are needed to treat different types of infection.

Having a statistics degree I am also well aware that statistical results can often be reported in different ways dependent on the desired outcome.

[Sweetpea]

All I can say is that the anti-depressant I am on Duloxetine (Cymbalta) is helping me.  I also believe that medication works only so far, thats why I have counselling to help me understand and deal with my depression.

We are all different and what works for one person does not work for another.

Thats my view anyway.

S x

[SteveW]

Snap! I have a MSc in Statistics as well. I doubt that we need different theories for different people. I think your antibiotic analogy tends to be a bit flawed. That tends to be because GPs tend to treat people blind without establishing which bug and which antibiotics it's susceptible to first . By the way a lot of the evidence that theories need to explain isn't statistical anyway. It tends to come from visual inspection of MRI scans. The sample sizes tend to be a bit small for statistics, MRI scans are pretty pricey.

But the serotonin hypothesis cant explain elementary facts like Reboxetine. This is a drug which has zero effect on serotonin but is just as effective an anti-depressant as the serotonin drugs.There is plenty of real theory about. Try the link below if you want to see a serious theory. I'm using it as an example. I don't necessarily endorse it


 http://bmb.oxfordjournals.org/content/65/1/193.full

[Buttercup]

Sorry Steve, antibiotic analogy not thought through just of the top of my head.
Will read article a bit later on having concentration probs at the moment.

[SteveW]

Shaz
I'm glad duloxetine is helping you but it doesn't change the facts about anti-depressants based around serotonin. A 70% response rate is about what you can expect from any of the drugs. Half of those are usually reported as cured the other half are reported as improved. The last 30% are completely untouched.

If that was an antibiotic for a chest infection that would be regarded as pathetic. Cure 35%, improve the cough of 35%  do nothing at all for the rest. And there is the worst fact of all. 20% of people can take all the anti-depressants in existence, and combinations of two or three and still remain completely untouched ever. That is a lot of people.

That seems the best that serotonin based drugs can manage. Drugs are created around a theory of depression. If your theory is wrong you are almost lost before you start.

[KateG]

I thought the article was very interesting. I agree that if ADs were antibiotics, we would bin most of them due to their "trial and error" nature

[Got]

This is definatly interesting.

[Got]

I thought the article was very interesting. I agree that if ADs were antibiotics, we would bin most of them due to their "trial and error" nature

well, you wouldn't have the time to do trial and error, due to death.

[KateG]

 :) Stevie, yep there's a flaw in my argument, the idea that we'd go back to the GP month after month saying "this one doesn't work either" would be a bit difficult given that the infection would have killed us by then....