advice please on narcissist tendancies

[niceguynorthwales]

hello to all
i was hoping someone here could please give me advice.
i have had concerns about my eldest son for some time, recently i read an article about narcisism, i hope i have spelt that correctly, and while i was reading this article it immediately jumped out at me that my son is displaying symptoms of this disorder, ie, always right, always wants to be the best, always criticising others, lack of empathy etc etc, it was as if this article was written for him.
Till i read this article  my concerns were that, as his mother is diagnosed as scizophrenic, there may be something inherited and hasalways given concern, now i have information regarding narcissistic tendancies i am relieved in one sense but in another feel that there must be something i can do to help him, even though he will not accept that he needs help.
Due to my ex wifes illness i brought up my children alone, four boys and a girl, they are not children anymore and have flown the nest, i have no concerns regarding my other sons and daughter, emotional health, they are all fine.
Over the  years there has been falling out, the common denominator is always my eldest son,  he is not inherently bad or anything like that, he just cannot see that others do not agree with him and i also do not agree with some of his comments or treatment of others, if his opinions are not agreed with (which is often and justifiably so) he regards this as a lack of family loyalty while being oblivious that he actually shows less himself, i could go on and on, however, i see rifts forming, and i see that my sons relationships with girlfriends do not last, he ends the relationships and in the most unempathetic ways, he just can not see the pain he has caused.
It is clear from my observations that he displays narcissistic tendancies, it hurts me when i see my brood fall out and my sons continual talking about himself can be overbearing for all, without this he is decent, honest, extremely good looking all femalesfancy hime (but does make thesituation worse), i can see many things he cannot, if i could convey to him that his life would be far better without his self centeredness i know his life and relations with his siblings would be so much better and fulfilling, but just how do you convey to someone, who believes everyone else is wrong, that they themselves are wrong and need help, please, anyone just how do you help a narcissist.
any advice would bedeeply appreciated
many thanks

[SteveW]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a difficult one. It wasn't even defined until 1967-8 with Otto Kernberg and then Heinz Kohut. Until recently it looked like it was going to be removed from the latest version of DSM 5. But I understand that it made it in.

I only tried to deal with one case and struggled. I went to Kernberg and Kohut to try and understand but found they were psychoanalysts, which I definitely am not. I could barely read the books let alone understand them. So I opted to refer them to a psychiatrist. He picked two options. The first was straight individual psychotherapy, not psychoanalysis. He also placed them in a group. This consisted mostly of people with Borderline Personality Disorder with a few other personality disorders thrown in.

I suppose objectively the guy showed a little improvement but it was a long way off massive.

All I could recommend is that you try and get your son to a psychiatrist, preferably with an interest in personality disorders. Though I suppose it is quite likely that he doesn't see himself as having a problem.

All I can really do is wish you luck.

[Pip]

My son is a narcissist and to be quite honest I didn't know anything about narcissism until about 5 years ago.  A side issue is he was adopted (I was coerced) and to cut a long story short I found him in 2004 ~ he was searching for me.  Anyway right he was very charming and we got on well right from the start as we have so much in common.  After a while I noticed he would accuse me of saying or doing things he had sad or done.  At the time I didn't think much off it as it wasn't happening that often.  As time went on he started displaying the typical narcissist tendencies and he could be quite full of his own importance.  My husband would joke that in some respects we were too much alike which I could understand but as it was a long distance relationship he didn't realize how badly behaved my son could be.

After he moved in with us my husband found out how obnoxious he could be even though my son can turn on the charm.  However he would never admit he was in the wrong and would come out with line such as 'If you believe I'm in the wrong then I must be.'  He would never accept responsibility for his own actions and it was always someone else's fault.  It was that ridiculous that we would prove to my son that he was in the wrong and even his adoptive parents would back us up.  Apparently they had put up with a lot over the years but we got it even worse.  They tried to help which included a psychiatrist but they made the mistake of trusting him to show up for appointments.  My so only turned up for a couple of appointments.

When my son was living with us we did the same and got the mental health team involved.  Unfortunately he wasn't completely honest.  We even did family counselling but it all came to an end when I told my son a few home truths in the last session.  He went bright red and refused to say much apart from that I was right to say what I did.  He moved out soon after that and we let the mental health team know as he had moved out of the area we were living in.

I don't know know much of narcissism apart from what I saw in my son.  I do know that unless he understands that he has a problem nobody can help him.  He knows the door is open a crack and that I do love him but I can't handle his disruptive behaviour.

[kutuup]

The trouble with people who have narcissistic personalities is that they tend to do well in their teen years, but once they reach adult age, they tend to do very poorly socially. The difficulty is that once someone learns to be that way, it's very hard to get them to "un-learn" it. The issue also is that they don't only harm their own social standing, they tend to harm other people in a lot of ways. I personally had a malignant narcissist for a best friend throughout my childhood and it did me no end of harm that remains until this day. The problem is that teenagers with that kind of personality tend to get positive re-enforcement from their peers. What you need to do is to provide some negative response to his personality. It'll be difficult, but he needs to learn that being that way will ultimately harm him. Adults don't tend to tolerate narcissistic people. You might need to have a talk with him and explain that there's a difference between being healthily self confident, and being narcissistic. You need to make it clear that it's natural for children to be that way, but that way of thinking needs to stop by a person's teenage years for them to have a healthy social life. If all else fails, make it clear to him that he will have a poor social life as an adult if he carries on. I guarantee you, he will.

[niceguynorthwales]

many thanks indeed for your replies, deeply appreciated.
i have to say i agree with comments made in your replies, it is all too obvious to me that people with such tendencies either genuinely can not see that they are bloody well annoying, (to say the least)  or are completely intollerant to accepting they have faults, maybe a mixture of the both.
As stated in my original post, i see rifts, i have seen these for some time and now and have done my utmost to be peacemaker and mediator, recently  my son in question split up with his girlfriend
in not a very nice way, similar to the way he split up with the girlfriend  not too long ago, my daughter was very upset and told him some things, home truths i think is the best description,
my son is in the army he was due home in august on leave, he sent a text  to my daughter saying he will be spending his leave in Norwich with his new girlfriend, in my own mind i think this is his form of punishing those who do not agree with him  (basically the rest of the family) he seems oblivious to the fact that because he is so self centred that the unfortunate truth is his siblings dont mind he is not spending leave at home, in effect he is not punishing he is letting off, but cannot see it, unless he is playing some sort of mind game with my daughter and is coming home anyway, all so complicated, why cant we all be the same, life would be so much easier.
This is why i asked for advice, i can see fall outs coming, i can see my son moving from girlfriend to girlfriend leaving children wherever, i just want harmony vand i know this will be hard to attain with him, mostly i want him to have a happy life but fear he will alienate himself by his own actions, which of course he cannot see, or will not accept.
I was hoping to have a chat with him on his leave and diplomatically inform him i am aware of insensitive things he has said about my other sons disabled child, (amongst other things) and attempt to make him see he is hurting people.
I think, apart from counselling, the point raised in replies about it is ok for a child to be selfish but not an adult may be one of the only ways of getting through, time will tell.
My deepest gratitude to you all
Thankyou