Author Topic: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?  (Read 8685 times)

Munchroom

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Sweetpea

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 03:36:09 PM »
Interesting article.

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Zaf

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 03:45:45 PM »
Definitely interesting, thanks :)
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Got

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 05:57:14 PM »

Psilocybin could scare the hell out of people with depression and anxiety, i think it is more that they want to isolate chemicals within its structure.

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SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 09:43:39 PM »
I agree with Stevie. Psychedelics and depression are a very risky mix. They can take you to some pretty hellish places and because of the time distortion psychedelics tend to engender they can seem to last for a very long time. Besides the research has really already been done back in the 60's.If you're interested try reading Stanislaw Grof's book LSD Psychotherapy.
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SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 07:25:58 PM »
Forgot to add. I don't see much point in tinkering around with the psilocybin molecule either. The structure of all the psychedelics have been known for years. The similarity between elements of their structure and elements of serotonin was duly noted but no new anti-depressants came out of it.

Anti-depressant development seems to have stalled somewhat. There is a new one on the way. It's already on the market in America and is in clinical trials over here. Its a 5-HT1A agonist and also affects Melatonin synthesis so its action is novel compared to the existing set.

I suspect real advances await further development in the fundamental science of depression rather than playing with psilocybin.
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Got

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 07:51:50 PM »

This may seem like a silly question, but what are the drivers for new anti-depressants when there are so many? The search for one with more efficacy; money ?

SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 09:09:08 PM »
I'm afraid it isn't commitment to the advancement of human welfare. Drug companies are strictly commercial entities who primary interest is the bottom line. The anti-depressant market is huge. Come up with something that gains a significant market share and you tend to do very well indeed.
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SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 09:29:27 PM »
I should have mentioned in my post above the new anti-depressant is called vilazodone. To add to my post in response to Stevie its sales in America are predicted to be worth over 1 billion dollars a year. Need I say more about the bottom line.
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Got

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 12:42:12 AM »
seems like I'm in the wrong line of work. psilocybin anyone?

SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 07:12:39 PM »
Welcome to the wonderful and profoundly moral world of Capitalist Pharmacology. Capitalism has no inhibition about extracting money from the sick,provided there is a profit in it.

It's obviously much worse in America. No NHS or maximum prescription charges there. Drugs are a commodity like cars and cd's.God knows what a months Viloxadone costs. My cynical intuition tells me-quite a lot.
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SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 06:38:30 AM »
I looked up the price of vilazedone on a pharmacy website. They were offering 30 10 mg tablets for the knock down price of $145. There's plenty of money in depressed folks. Be very grateful for the NHS when it arrives over here.
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Sweetpea

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 07:53:51 AM »
That is a very scarey price. Drug companies must be rubbing their hands together.

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SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 09:04:31 AM »
I don't suppose anyone is really interested but I like to get my facts right. The description of the action of Viloxadone I gave was based on erroneous information. Its proper definition is an SSRI and partial 5-HT1A agonist. Forget Melatonin. The confusion arose due to the next anti-depressant due to arrive Agomelatine.

This is a far more interesting drug than Viloxadone.It is a melatonergic agonist at both MT1 and MT2 receptors.and 5-HT2C antagonist.It is claimed that it has an effect on circadian rhythms and increases the amount of slow wave sleep. It is a far more radically different drug than Viloxadone. As a Marxist, my hope for Viloxadone is that it turns out to be a souped up SSRI that messes up your sex life marginally less than Prozac, and falls flat on its face.
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SteveW

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Re: Magic Mushrooms to be tested for treatment of depression?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 10:59:49 AM »
I re=read the story about Professor Nutt and Psilocybin and had a proper think about it. I became even more convinced that he is on to a loser. He seems to be advocating several different things. One of them is that Psilocybin can access memory and therefore be of use in psychotherapy.

We really did that one to death in the 1960's. We are fully aware that psychedelics can access memory. No further research needed. Stan Grof in the Czech Republic used low dose LSD for this purpose for years. His book LSD Psychotherpy is not far off being a practice manual. Claudio Naranjo did the same thing in South America. And it wasn't just LSD. Mescaline, Psilocybin, DMT, the lot were used. It was found that the therapeutic effects went way beyond accessing repressed memories.

But things progressed even further than that. Some people found that the power of LSD,even at low dose, was more than they could handle.Enter the Phenylethylamines. People looked around for something that could access memory and perform other therapeutic processes but which lacked the major consciousness altering properties of the major psychedelics. The search was entirely successful. We acquired MDA, MMDA, and no doubt many of the other Phenylethylamines that I never got around to taking. They did all the memory reaquisition and a whole heap of other stuff too, and all without the slightest hint of consciousness alteration.

Meanwhile since the 1930's people had been using the far simpler drugs-the amphetamines and the barbiturates for exactly the same purpose. All this stuff is written up and drug assisted psychotherapy could start this afternoon without any need for research.

As for psilocybin switching off an area of the brain overactive in depression exactly what area is that. There is MRI scan evidence that a whole heap of areas are over active in depression. It's not an area its properly described as a network.And elements of that network are involved in a lot more biological functions than just depression. Trying to shut down elements of that network seems like a recipe for disaster. Luckily we don't need Professur Nutt again.There is evidence that as the existing anti-depressants start to work the functioning of the network tends to return to normal anyway.

Prefessor Nutt stands no practical chance of ever getting anywhere near a new anti-depressant anyway. Bringing a new drug to the market is a very expensive business and only the big drug companies have the resources to do it. They are very unlikely to touch psilocybin. Too many patent problems. The structure,metabolism.receptor binding properties are all well known and they are all in the Public Domain. You don't make shed loads of money out of things in the Public Domain. That requires patents. And what do you go about patenting when just about everything worth knowing about the substance is already known and public.

One completely unrelated fact that I'll mention. An old LSD manufacturer friend of mine told me that Psilicybin is actually pretty irrelevant. As soon as you swallow it the body starts to break it down into another substances psilocin. It's that that has all the effects not psilocybin. Pedantic but I do like people to define their terms properly.
Sometimes the light is shining on me
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Lately it occurs to me
What a long, strange, trip it's been