The trouble with Christianity

[Catbrian]

I would probably still consider myself Christian, but will have no part in, what I call, “Churchianity”.  I spent my young teenage years attending Sunday services, and then committed myself to training and working for the Church of Scotland.  But, over the years, I was so disheartened by the Church’s judging mentality; I resigned from my post and never set foot in a church again.  I needed to find the one true God for myself.  I wanted to understand the truth behind Jesus’ teachings and the intentions for his followers.
 
Leaving the church meant I had to re-evaluate my faith.  What did I believe in?  Was I still a Christian?  Is it the church, or I, who have totally missed the point of Jesus teachings? 

Jesus was not a Christian, he was a respected Jewish Rabbi and neither did he profess or encourage people to be “Christian”.  That concept came about 100 years after his death and appears largely based on the teachings of the Apostle Paul and Peter, although what significant role Peter had, is totally lost on me.

In my opinion, The Apostle Paul’s interpretation of Jesus’ teachings and his subsequent instructions to the early Christians, are not what Jesus intended.  Apparently, Jesus’ brother James sent his “disciples” to visit towns where Paul had already preached, to undo his misinterpretation of Jesus teachings.

I believe, you cannot live your life by Jesus teachings AND by Paul’s instructions; they are evidently incompatible.  Jesus emulates love, non-judgment, honour, and forgiveness; Paul encapsulates persecution, power, and control.

I believe wholly in the teachings of Jesus.  Sadly, IMO, many of those teachings have never taken a central role within most of the Christian Church.  From the early Christian Church/movement, to the torture and murder of thousands during the Inquisition years and onto the church as we know it today, there seems to be so much judgement and persecution.  Is this what Jesus intended?

Two thousand years ago, when Jesus was alive, if He were TRULY the Son of God, then of course, he could see everything, far off into the future.  However, he could never have attempted explaining to the people of his time about the moral issues that will arise in the future.

How could Jesus explain that, in 2,000 years, same sex marriage was on the agenda, or sex before marriage was such an issue?  How could he explain abortion, contraception and divorce?… These all form part of the church's judgement.

However, I believe, Jesus’ teaching surrounding, “not judging, loving others and forgiveness” are timeless and were intended to lead us into the future, without judgment, and with love.  Those basic instructions are omnipresent and can apply to every moral argument that can face the Christian Church today and into the future. 

[mrnotsomoody]

As a non-Christian and someone who hasnt read the Bible (not much anyways) that was an informative read Catb and you are probably spot on in your observations. I guess the Bible and teachings and current day church probably are quite removed from Jesus's original teachings and values. Someone once suggested that Christ was the original socialist but you can imagine the reaction if you said that to someone in the Evangelical movement in America or someone from the Bible Belt.

[sad sack]

The bible was a book of camp fire stories put together by someone desperate to cling onto what little power he had left....

I normally find that people who study and promote the bible, tend to leave out bits they are not happy with, or ignore them...just as they bend and exaggerate the bits they do agree with...

The bit that really bugs me about religion, and the church, is that they always need money, always got their hands out... I've never seen a poor religion... add that to the killing and wars in their name, and the repression of people who can think for themselves,... it's a very dangerous thing and should be banned.

I also normally find people who are religious to be very intolerant of others, and think they are right in everything they do and are… but are really just petty and vindictive people..

At the end of the day, it's a good work of fiction, and should be treated as such.... (imo)

For further reading, look at “a year of living biblically” just to see what a farce the whole thing really is…

When will these peopl realise that they are no better than gays, or people that follow a different invisible friend, or anyone else that doesn't believe in the same as them... "Do not judge"... don't make me laugh!  _-+ _-+ _-+ _-+ _-+ _-+

[Catbrian]

Moody and Sad sack.... both of you are spot on in your observations

Thanks for reading my post....it means a lot

Cat

[Zaf]

My (non Christian) faith believes that Jesus was a teacher, and that parts of the bible do reflect his teachings but since his death others have corrupted the truth; some intentionally, others by misinterpretation, poor translation or simply bad memory (as much of the contents of bible were conveyed by word of mouth until it was written down much later). 

Sadly it appears to me that most organised religions have been overwhelmed with those seeking power or material possessions and the teachings of all the Masters (our word for teachers) to love and have compassion for all that we share this universe with has been forgotten not only by those following the religions but those in high office within them.

[Catbrian]

Yes, spot on Zaf....the books of the Bible were not written down until at least 100 years after Jesus death.  Even then, much of the bible we know today, was interpreted by the power hungry early Church Fathers. What people don’t realise is that there is many more books/gospels found with the original texts that the Church chose not to include.  There’s the gospel according to Thomas, another one called Mary Magdelene (sorry if wrong spelling).  There are also other ones, I can’t quite remember, that the Church Fathers decided not to include because they don’t quite fit in with the Christian message they wanted to convey.

Many people believe that the Books of the Old Testament and the Gospels in the New Testament were actually written by the prophets themselves and then the disciples of Jesus, Mathew Mark Luke and John etc.  It's more likely they were, as you said, handed down by word of mouth.  Just think how a game of “whispers” goes; how the finishing sentence is often nowhere near the original.

There have been ancient scrolls and parchments found in the last 30+ years that WERE written at the time of Jesus by a group of "monks" who were already practicing the teachings that Jesus adopted.  It's believed by Scholars that he was "master" of this particular order, as was his brother "James the Just" after Jesus’ death.  They tell a slightly different story and most definitely one that conveys love, honour, respect and forgiveness.  However, despite the evidence and scientific research, the church fails to recognise the contents, concocting elaborate excuses as to why they shouldn't believe in them.  In my opinion, these scrolls should be at the centre of the Church's much needed Reformation

[Zaf]

There are too many vested interests for recent finds to be given recognition, in fact Ive heard that some were actually destroyed at one time so they didnt interfere with the beliefs of the church.

Some people think Jesus was one of the Mystics, and althoug its very easy to interpret some passages in the bible to say what we want them to, there does seem some evidence to substantiate that belief.

Z xxx

[Catbrian]

Yes, I would likely agree.  It's such a shame when you think what a nice religion it would be to TRULY follow Jesus teachings.

[Zaf]

I think most religions would be wonderful if their believers actually followed the teachings

Z xxx

[Pip]

I consider myself a 'free spirit' when it comes to my Christian faith and have had my fair share of disagreements with other Christians.  For example over homosexuality I believe a real Christian wont condemn another because of their sexuality and God loves us all.  Usually when the subject has come up it's been to do with same sex marriages and same sex couples adopting.  People deserve the right to be treated equally and not discriminated which includes having the same rights as heterosexual couples.  I understand the reasoning over adoption because it takes a man and a woman to create a child but it doesn't necessarily mean they are the best parents for the child.  I have friends who are lesbians and raising a son.  He is loved very much and they have contact with his mother.  He is well adjusted, happy and certainly doesn't have any issues with having two mothers as they raise him the same as any other couple a child.

I get annoyed though with people who use the bible as an excuse to adopt as adoption in the bible is completely different to modern day adoption.  Christians just twist what's written in the bible to justify adoption.  They hate it when I say adoption in the bible was in the best interests of the child and usually use Jesus and Moses as examples.  If Moses hadn't been 'adopted' there was a good chance that he would have been killed for being a Jewish child.  His mother was part of his life and he returned to his family when he was older.  With regards to Jesus he was raised by his mother and Joseph obeyed God by being a father to Jesus.  It also says in the bible to look after widows and orphans which doesn't translate to adopting orphans.

Too many Christians use the bible as justification for their behaviour without really understanding what's written in it.  The New Testament teachings are about love, forgiveness and not judging others.  I have lost count of the times I have been judged by others which has infuriated me at times.  I'm not perfect but when I know I am in the wrong I do something about it.  Sometimes people will take teachings literally and in an unbending way which can be equally as bad as people who are selfish and don't care about other people.  The parables, for example, were told to make people think of their own actions before judging others.

[Zaf]

Too many Christians use the bible as justification for their behaviour without really understanding what's written in it.  The New Testament teachings are about love, forgiveness and not judging others.  I have lost count of the times I have been judged by others which has infuriated me at times.  I'm not perfect but when I know I am in the wrong I do something about it.  Sometimes people will take teachings literally and in an unbending way which can be equally as bad as people who are selfish and don't care about other people.  The parables, for example, were told to make people think of their own actions before judging others.

I couldnt agree more Pip

[Catbrian]

I've just TRIED to read the original post to this thread.  OMG, I do go on a bit. Even I didn't have the patience to read through all that!  Evidently I need to learn how to summarise and stick to the subject ()(

[Pip]

Thank you for putting the first smile on my face.  It's only 8.52 am and I woke up late for me at 8.15 am as my dog alarm didn't wake me up for a change.   He was asleep next to me.

[Catbrian]

 =+-.  Making you Scott's porridge oats  (&(