Depression Forums
Other Depression & Anxiety Related Illneses => Personality Disorders => Topic started by: Bexwa on October 27, 2011, 02:53:02 PM
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I've always thought I was a little different when I reached my teens. Moods were always up and down and once I found drink and drugs I became a bit of a wild card. I slept around with, what I'm ashamed of, tonnes of men, trying to make myself feel better. Nothing ever did. I'm been bulimic since I was 15 and had major problems with my weight. Well, I say major I always average between a 12 - 16. Relationships come and go all the time, I have a world wind first few months, decide this is the person I need to be with and then within a few months I am picking at every little thing. Driving them to the brink of despair.
I recently found out I have been suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder for a number of years. I thought something was wrong with me. The doctors haven't exactly been supportive. I thought they would have explained more things further instead stuck me on medication and wait for something else to be done. I thought therapy would be a good way to help me through it but I've heard nothing more about it. The medication I have been given seems to be taking away my personality all together. I don't seem to have the same sense of humour as I used to. My sex drive has just completely diminished. I just don't know whether it is worth taking the medication, which only seems to keep me on a level Plato.
Does this ever get any easier? I just need someone to talk about it with as I seem to be lost and alone. People treat me different and I know I am acting it since being on the medication. I just want to hear other peoples experiences and chat.
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Sorry I cant help with it but I do know it takes ages for the NHS to get their finger out where therapy is concerned, has any been offered?
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They told me I would eventually get some psychotherapy but nothing else has been said about it and that was back in May. The only reason I am being seen now by someone is because I took an overdose at Easter. If that wouldn't have happened I'd probably still be sat here with no help at all.
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Its ridiculous how long it takes >:D
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Hi Bexwa. You have been going through a very difficult time for a long time and you are feeling confused and isolated by it. You feel at a loss as to why you have always acted the way you have and what your diagnosis means for you now. You have realised you are acting differently now and have noticed that friends and family have started to treat you differently. You feel misunderstood and alone and this is very difficult for you to deal with on a daily basis. I'm sorry you are feeling this way, it is very difficult for you. Your doctor has made a diagnosis and medicated you which must have felt like a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel, but alas it has only lead to more confusion as it hasn't helped yet.
I believe every psychological/personality type illness/problem is both a long haul illness and a long haul recovery process. Our health service can not provide this quickly enough for the suffering involved and this is very frustrating. Even when therapy arrives this too takes an awful lot of time, effort and courage to utilse fully.
I hope you find this forum helpful, I certainly have, if you would like to talk more about your feelings here please do and we will support you however we can.
Take Care
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i went under the wing of the mental health trust when i was 13 and i only got diagnosed as having BPD late last year ha ha
lots of support that you can find online, i find it easier to get help on here or elsewhere through various organisations than i dp from the NHS
hope you get the support you need soon tho xx
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I am actually finding this forum so useful. Everyone is so friendly and willing to chat to you when you need it. Its fab lol.
Thanks guys :)
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awww no probs :D xx
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Hi there.
Nice to meet you. The NHS are slow arn't they? I hope you get the support you need soon..... X
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Thanks Stevie, me too. Just seems like you go round in circles for a while rather then anything being done but we'll see. I'll just keep bugging them till they sort it out lol xx
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They told me I would eventually get some psychotherapy but nothing else has been said about it and that was back in May. The only reason I am being seen now by someone is because I took an overdose at Easter. If that wouldn't have happened I'd probably still be sat here with no help at all.
they weren't very helpful with me until i admitted making attempts at suicide and self harm, it took me a long time to open up about that. sadly i think they only seem to want to help when your in danger.
I am actually finding this forum so useful. Everyone is so friendly and willing to chat to you when you need it. Its fab lol.
Thanks guys :)
i dont think i would still be here if it wasn't for this place.
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Sorry to hear that Cornish. But it does seem like they don't really care until you have a major problem. I feel even more like a nutter now though because I'm the girl who tried to off herself. Its just seems like we have miles ahead of us and no starting line. I guess I'm just scared that this is going to go on forever and things will only get worse.
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Sorry to hear that Cornish. But it does seem like they don't really care until you have a major problem. I feel even more like a nutter now though because I'm the girl who tried to off herself. Its just seems like we have miles ahead of us and no starting line. I guess I'm just scared that this is going to go on forever and things will only get worse.
i hear you there, they were fannying about with my meds and my psychiatry for years... try to off my self and they sorted it out within 2 weeks
makes me feel like they dont care till your on your death bed xx
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Its a sad world, especially when you are having to wait for the NHS.
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sadly its not just the nhs, private sector is just as bad, i would have thought they wanted as much "business" as possible but i think they dont care half the time, your just easy money to some of them
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That's the problem. No one wants to help but quite happy to take the money from you ::)
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well my psychologist is private and does really want to help. always the exception to the rule thankfully :)
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Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a serious mental illness that can be challenging for everyone involved, including the individuals with the illness.
If you are having excess weight gain due to your disorder then you can go for natural remedies. Natural weight loss products are efficient and safe. However that scenario is not true always. Herbal or natural medicines may not be safe always. Some of them are not tested for efficiency or safety. However, it is proved that Caralluma fimbriata is one of the safest herbal and effective products out in the market.
I would always advise people to check with their doctor before taking herbal remedies to make sure they don't interfere with other medication
Link removed for this reason when I clicked on it:
Reported Attack Page!
This web page at www.eslimaluma.com has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences.
Attack pages try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system.Some attack pages intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.
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The main feature of borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a pervasive pattern of instability in interpersonal relationships, self-image and emotions. It is better to go for psychiatric treatment for your disease. If you have gain lots of weight then you can even go for weight loss programs. Weight loss remedies are effective for losing weight.
I have removed the link for the reason already given
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A few months ago I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar type 2 and Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. The BP came as no surprise but the EUPD is a bit of a shock. TBH I have been shying away from reading up on the condition because it terrifies the life out me. Reading this thread, as old as it is, has made me realise that part of a recent bad bout of depression is caused by avoiding, almost denying, this new diagnosis. I can now understand the importance of researching BP and EUPD as it could well provide a better understanding of such a careless and sometime fickle lifestyle.
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Catb - how odd that i can relate to your post soo much when im KatB too ha!
Iv been given that many it could be or you're displayings signs of im pretty sure my next diagnoses is goibg to be im a zebra fairy trapped in a human body lol.
its okay to be scared by a new diagnosis or different termanology, goodness were upset and unsettled by sny sort of change especially one that builds an understanding of ourselves. I really hope any research you've done is helping things to become a little clearer for you and if any of yoyr treatment or therapy changes it helps to enrichen your life more.
Remember we define the personality disorders or illnesses. its OUR experiences, feelings and emotions which create them. Don't let the lable dictate you. You're still the same person.
peace.love.hope
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Hi Katb. Thank you for your words of encouragement. I hope you’re doing okay.
Recently I have been doing a lot of research into Personality Disorder. My initial reaction is amazement. Everything I read speaks directly to me; answering questions that I have been asking for many years. Life in general continues to be difficult, but that does not necessarily mean depression.
I view things differently from most and find it a challenge to live side by side with fellow human beings. Finally understanding why this is a problem, is a step closer to leading some kind of “normal†existence.
If my family were to read the symptoms of PD, I am certain they too will see a lot of me. My behaviour and relationship with them has never been easy over the years, but this seems to be a symptom of the disorder.
For 12 years, I consistently said I was struggling with something other than depression, but I just could not put my finger on it. It took a change of Psychiatrist for me get a more appropriate diagnosis. Now, I understand so much more about myself. It comes at a time when I am already on the threshold of major changes
I am taking time to absorb everything but do plan to write a little something about the experience. I have absolutely no idea what this diagnosis means to the rest of my life. I have yet to grasp how other people might view me. There are specific support groups in London for PD and I know of a couple of training courses, “understanding, and living with PD,†which will help. However, until then, I will continue to absorb all the info.
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Hi Catb,
I read your posts on being diagnosed with BPD. I did quite a bit of reading over Christmas on this and I even said to my Therapist that I display behaviour that ties in with this. His reply was "Your not Borderline." I was hoping for "You don't have a personality disorder." But as the other Katb says, it's just a label. I've not been diagnosed with anything other than depression about 4 times in ten years, then I told my Therapist I don't have depression. Then he asked what behaviour I saw in myself and I said "Um, I don't know." He must feel like banging his head against a wall!
The thing is I do tend to see behaviours that I do, like I keep falling in love with my wife over and over and then I keep pushing her away again and I see her as a bad person for no reason that anyone except me understands. I can also relate to saying I find it a challenge living next to other Humans. Do you feel like people can see something they shouldn't when they look at you? I feel like people can see straight through me sometimes. I also put a front on and pretend to be someone I'm not because I don't believe people would like the real me. When Im with a group of people and someone pokes fun at me I always wear an awkward smile and I feel myself crumble inside and it could be the smallest thing. I don't really have many friends because I find friendships kind of exhausting and watching other people seems strange because everyone seems so confident compared to me, it's like I experience much deeper emotions to everyone else and they can't understand and a lot of the time being alone scares me. I wish I could of told my Therapist that instead of "Um, I dunno." I guess knowing you probably know what I mean has helped me open up a little.
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Hi CaptainK
Thanks for answering my post. What you say does intrigue and I certainly relate too much of what you write. My basic understanding is that most people with PD will identify with many of the symptoms in all types, A, B or C; it was like this for me, anyway.
I relate to your cycle of feelings and emotions with your wife and can identify times in my life when I have blown hot and cold, sometimes all in the one day. That has been difficult to live with, both for me and for whoever was unfortunate enough to be involved. Subsequently, a low opinion of my worth was always predominant.
Therefore, the fear of people not liking the “real me†was similar to your own. I do suffer from paranoia and this only exacerbates that inexplicable need to guard against people becoming too close. Interestingly, to be able to form close friendships online, with the additional “screen-protectionâ€, has been largely fulfilling.
Having deeper, more important, emotions to everyone else has been an obstacle and quite rightly can come under fire as being selfish and too full of my own importance.
Without doubt, the symptoms of PD are not merely little guidelines to my own experiences. At different times in the past 50 years, they have become major issues, not only affecting me but also those nearest and dearest.
At times, people might have found my behaviour somewhat challenging. Until I read into PD, I did not quite appreciate just how baffling that might have been.
I’m not sure if this should be having such a positive effect on my overall thinking. Suddenly, it feels like a clearer understanding is developing of what makes me tick. The scope to adjust and almost learn certain “appropriate behaviours†is encouraging. It couldn’t have come at a better time, when other positive changes are taking place.
It’s good to share with like-minded people and helps ease that alienated feeling.
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Hey Catb,
I've just got back from Therapy and I got my wife to come with me and my therapist has just been discussing my behaviour. We talked about my push/pull cycles, my fear of abandonment and my crazy mood swings from depression to elation, which can change within the hour. The words Bi-Polar came up but I said its not just my moods, it's also my feelings of self worth that change. My Therapist explained it to my wife in words that where perfect and then asked me if he was right and I was left dumbfounded really. We discussed my personality modes too and my Therapist was asking if I ever acted like a child and my wife starting telling him all the things I do like sitting and sulking when I'm criticised. I'm starting to feel like people actually understand what it's like to be me which can be pretty exhausting to be honest.
I get what you mean about seeing symptoms of all the PDs I do feel paranoid a lot and I am very avoidant at times. I can be seen as quite narsasistic at times, although I'm not really. I've been called a pyscho before for not showing my 'Genuine emotions.' As apparently they are always 'exaggerated' I've just been refarred to by my wife as a drama queen. Lol.
I hope you don't mind me posting this but I feel everything is pointing towards my personality at the moment and I find it good to chat to someone else who is in the same boat as me, having to look at how they behave around other people and how it effects people and us. I know this thread is about BPD and I'm not BPD but I can see there are similarities between how I behave and how people with BPD behave.
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When I was initially diagnosed, Bipolar was also included. I think the mood swings in Bipolar last a lot longer than daily swings. Personally, it only takes one little issue to bring my whole world crumbling in around me, or that's what it feels like. That is being put down to PD
Somewhere along the line, it became more difficult for me to show emotion; to touch or be touched, especially around family. It can feel confusing and frustrating. However, learning more about the condition, helps to keep a lid on it.
I am pleased you took your wife to the Therapist; that can only be a positive thing. I think very often, people around us notice and understand more than we think they do.
I am very tired tonight so it's bed time.
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Hey CaptK
Your post has been thought provoking. It has come to mind on and off today and I can identify with a lot of what you are currently exploring in therapy.
These “push/pull cycles†that you touch on. I call them my “hot and cold†moods. They absolutely drive me nuts; sometimes it feels as if that mentality has a mind of its own. Because it is a genuine emotion at the time, it feels impossible to see past it, or bring about a change in thinking.
I can relate to the narcissism/psycho response to certain things and this was a concern of mine a few years ago, during group therapy, when I had to confront an air of indifference for other people’s feelings. I became aware that a great deal of my responses was like a learned-behaviour. This has largely changed in recent years. It is interesting to read the info on PD that says this part of life can become easier as someone gets older (well, I think it does!)
Does your therapist have any incline as to how to deal with these traits? Is it an NHS therapist? I might take a bit of convincing that the behaviours of PD can change through something like CBT.
I’m not so sure I am Borderline. When my Psychiatrist first diagnosed, her intention was that I would research the condition, as well as Bipolar, and go back to discuss later. I plan to see her again in a few weeks when I organise a car. From the info I read, I fit into cluster A as much as B. When my depression was at its worst, I did suffer bouts of psychosis and this might make me think I also fall into every category of PD. Most of the symptoms have had major impacts throughout my life.
These last few weeks, it is a great revelation to read up on this crippling condition. At times, I have mistaken some of the symptoms as depression; it is a weight off my shoulders to view it all from an entirely different perspective.
Probably only someone with knowledge or experience of Personality Disorder will understand most of what I’m saying. I hope I haven’t been blabbing boring rubbish (that’s the paranoia kicking in!!)
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Hi Catb,
I've got to admit that I don't find what your saying is babbling boring rubbish. I spent sometime on a forum for people who are connected to people with BPD and people there couldn't understand behaviour that they where seeing. I soon noticed that I understood most of the behaviour being discussed. Then one day there was a post on the forum which had described my exact behaviour from that morning and I had to check the time and computer history. Then when my wife was with me at therapy she was asking all the questions that I read regularly on that forum. My therapist is a N.H.S. therapist but I don't think he's doing C.B.T. With me anymore. We did two sessions and since then it seems to be general therapy. I find we spend most of the time talking about feelings and my childhood rather than thoughts and stuff like we did originally. I know D.B.T. Is especially for B.P.D. I don't know if that's available in this country.
When you go through your cycles do you find you absolutely adore someone and its like a fire in your heart and a knot in your stomach and the next minute they can look at you funny or say something critical or something and then your feelings just change like walls come crashing down around you and you feel really depressed and angry at them.
I go into silent mode then and can't make eye contact with them, I've done this with my Therapist and my G.P. and I feel empty inside, that's where I feel the crumbling inside me.
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Yes, well, you remind me of the dark times when I did experience those intense feelings in relationships and remember too well that sinking feeling, when something changes and it feels so permanent. It's like the bottom of your world falls out and all your feelings with it. That emptiness is soon filled with fear and bewilderment, even repulsion for my own behaviour.
I withdrew from life completely for a few years and have obviously protected myself against these experiences. I have been happily single for 13 years; it's much easier with less complication. I cannot imagine loneliness ever being part of my life.
I like to think of myself as tough, but can crumble at the slightest bit of criticism and will be absolutely beside myself whenever I feel unfairly treated. Without doubt, emotions can run high and be erratic, which I now understand as traits of PD.
I fear it all makes me sound like a horrible person, unworthy of friendship or trust. These are difficult traits to admit, but it’s a bit like admitting you have an addiction problem, once you admit, you surrender yourself and pave the way for some kind of healing.
This thread has been good for helping me explore my initial thoughts and feeling about Personality Disorder. The diagnosis and my subsequent understanding are having a profound effect on my overall MH. It comes at a time when major changes were already under way. You could say it is my icing on the cake.
It has been difficult to talk or write about PD anywhere else. I haven’t really known what to say. It is a much more difficult condition to explain. Even the title sounds OTT and a bit ‘looney-tune’. However, for a change, everything is making much more sense to me.
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When I read your posts it really gives me a feeling of peace inside. I've been thinking a lot that I have internalized so much of how I feel that's its hard to start explaining it to people. I feel like I would be seen as extremely weird if I started acting how I feel in the outside world. I keep quiet when I'm being criticised by an employer when I can feel all these emotions running away inside me. I could quite happily burst into tears or get really angry and start shouting but instead I just feel a deep shame and sit there and take it. Lately I've been thinking that I could easily compare my emotions to that of a teen girl and have to fight to keep them all in.
For me I would like to get a diagnosis now. To me this would be an important part of the rebuilding process as I am aware of how I feel but also part of me is in denial, saying to myself my therapist hasn't told me anythings wrong it is kind of telling part of me there is nothing wrong but I know there is. I guess what I'm saying is that the first thing I need really is to accept that there is something wrong. Then I would be able to work on it. Also I can see things differently now and how I have hurt some people and I would like to be able to give them an explanation about why I have acted the way I did. I'm just finding it frustrating not have a name for what is going on. Imagine being told that you have a lump and when you ask if it is serious the doctor avoiding the question, it's kind of like that to me.
When you say that you think you fit into all the personality clusters did you know that everybody's personality is built up of these personality types. It's when one sticks out and causes a pervasive pattern of hurt in work,social life and in your ability to form relationships. For me I definitely struggle in all three. The way I see the words personality disorder is that all these things in all 3 clusters should live harmoniously within our personality but when one sticks out professionals consider it disordered from the others. Borderline is actually an outdated name now too. I think they should rename it and from what I've read I think Emotionally unstable points to cluster B in general I.e Emotionally unstable personality disorder borderline type or histrionic type. This is what I've put together from reading thing anyway. Maybe it would be a good topic to discuss? Especially other people got involved.
Anyway, I'm glad you have shared your posts with me some far. I felt really alone since starting therapy and you saying you relate has really helped me. I was thinking this morning of putting it like this to people.' I feel I'm in a world where I often feel alone, even though I don't feel lonely. Where I feel scared for no apparent reason and all I need is a little understanding.'
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Hey CaptK
I know a lot about internalising, I spent 6-7 years completely locked in it. It’s interesting that recovery through “Mindfulness†is all about living in the moment, not thinking too much about the past or the future. I know little about the practice but intend looking into it more as my next venture
I think we reach a large part of our diagnosis by ourselves. In my experience, Psychiatrists are not very keen on throwing diagnosis about. I had to push for a review of mine and even took it as far as changing the psychiatrist. I had researched many psychiatric illness’s, insistent there was something more than depression and PTSD. As soon as I read the info on PD, I knew I had found it, albeit slightly nudged by the Mental Health Team.
The symptoms that I have been identifying with are not merely symptoms but they have materialised as major issues at various points throughout my lifetime. For me, it’s immaterial what cluster.
Before I had the diagnoses, I had never heard of Personality Disorder. The term personality “disorder†might conjure up all sorts of scenarios for the onlooker. It’s all a bit weird because I am feeling so comfortable with it; I haven’t really given much thought to what other people might think. I do wonder if other people suffering depression might also identify with some of the symptoms of PD. It is always up for discussion….
This is the link to the Royal College of Psychiatrists leaflet on Personality Disorder
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvice/problems/personalitydisorders/personalitydisorder.aspx
If I were to attempt to explain what living with PD is like for me, then I would probably say it is similar to living inside a very thick glass goldfish bowl. Everything around ME looks clear and straightforward, but to those looking in, the reflection of the thick glass makes everything look distorted, and the things I say sound slightly muffled. It also makes my view of their world look quite bizarre at times. People can look inside my world, but are never able to come inside and experience it first-hand. I may stand shoulder to shoulder with many people, but there is always thick transparent glass standing between us; a barrier that sets us apart and makes me similar but entirely different to everyone else.
I must say, I have found this to be largely untrue with writing to people online. Having the safety barrier of the technology, I am safe to open up and let people inside. They still cannot see, hear, or experience first-hand, but at least I can express my view clearly through words
Interesting what you say about therapy. Any time I have gone through therapy, most of the soul-searching happens between sessions. Sometimes we need that additional outlet to be able to off load. Writing has always been a hobby. It is also a gift to be able to express our deepest thoughts through words with other like-minded people.
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I tend to do all my soul searching between Therapy sessions and then off load at my Therapist and the guy can't get a word in edgeways. The session with my Wife was different though, my Therapist kept trying to pull me into the talking and I just sat back and let my Wife talk to him. I just didn't feel the need to pipe up which is what I was expecting to do but then I just let them talk. The strange thing is though I felt like they where talking about someone else and not me, everything that my Therapist talked about seemed spot on but it was strange to listen to him explaining things to my Wife. Probably because up until recently I thought everyone had the same emotions as me and then when he started explaining them I thought it made me sound strange. He asked my Wife if I ever acted like a little boy and she said "Erm, yeah. He goes really quiet on me sometimes and stares at the floor and I know he's changed and gone into one of his moods. Then he blanks me for ages." He asked me what sets this off and I said "I can be sat in the room having a brew and my Wife can walk in stressed and it just sets me off." He asked what things she says when she's stressed and I replied "She doesn't have to say anything, I read her like a book. It could be her posture, facial expression or she could huff and I'm expecting criticism." He looked amazed at me, I told him I read everyone like that. I can read peoples moods before they do. I gave him an example of a chat I'd had with him and I asked him a question and he had said yes but his facial expression said no and when I told him this he laughed.
It's funny you say we reach a large part of a diagnosis by ourselves. I've been listening to my Wife talk lately and The things she has mentioned have stood out for me as traits "Your constantly after attention." "Your always hunting for praise." "Your very manipulative." "Your a drama queen." "One minute you tell me your depressed and then next minute your dancing round the house elated, I don't believe you feel like that." To me these are all traits of HPD and when I read through the list of criteria I spot most of them in myself, which makes me wonder. I have also taken this test http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html (http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html) and I always score between 86% and 90% Histrionic. I also score about 70% avoidant too. I've always felt there was something really wrong with me and I'd love to know what it is because then at least I'd know why I feel so different to most people.
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Hope you don't mind me joining in.
I've been following this thread from the sidelines & found it very interesting. The thing that confuses me is that there is so much crossover between PD & bipolar. Ultimately bipolar fits for me as my episodes last days/weeks not moments.
Something I read suggested that bipolar mood episodes were rarely triggered by environmental factors whereas PD ones were, this confuses me mainly as my psychiatrist has explained that stress is a huge trigger for me.
Having read the link you posted Catb; cluster c has my constant feelings, the ones that are constantly there down to an absolute tee. So where does this leave me?
I also do an awful lot of soul searching & have to admit I font always find it helpful. The less I think about things the better I feel.
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Hi Buttercup,
Feel free to join in! For me the factor that sets me off is what comes or doesn't come out of people's mouths. If people are there and I talk to them and they don't reply I kind of feel invisible which makes me uncomfortable. If I get criticised I feel my feelings of self worth drop and my mood drops with it and leads to depression. If I do something for someone I can stand there for ages wondering if I've done it good enough, when they tell me I've done a great job then I feel elated and my feeling of self worth go through the roof. My feeling of self worth are controlled by how people see me as appossed to how I see myself. This controls my moods in the process.
The soul searching does make me feel bad. The things I've found lately is a deep feeling of shame within myself and then after that one I found an abandonment issue. This abandonment issue fuels all my strongest emotions. Then I started soul searching how I acted when it was triggered and this made me feel really down for weeks. To the point of considering self harming, I refrained from this and am feeling much better about it now.
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Hi Buttercup,
Feel free to join in! For me the factor that sets me off is what comes or doesn't come out of people's mouths. If people are there and I talk to them and they don't reply I kind of feel invisible which makes me uncomfortable. If I get criticised I feel my feelings of self worth drop and my mood drops with it and leads to depression. If I do something for someone I can stand there for ages wondering if I've done it good enough, when they tell me I've done a great job then I feel elated and my feeling of self worth go through the roof. My feeling of self worth are controlled by how people see me as appossed to how I see myself.
This is the bit I strongly relate to. I tend not to socialise to avoid not being talked to and constantly seek reassurance for decisions I make. I also wonder whether I've done a good enough job etc. these feelings tend to always be kicking around in the background. How much they bother me depends on how depressed I am. I'm not sure they start my mood but I am a little confused here; a touch of what came first.
To an extent these feelings are also there when I'm high but my optimism nulls the effect.
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Hi CaptK… once again, you have me thinking..
Hi BC… you and anyone else is very welcome to join in. You are right about the moods of BP and PD.
I think many who are experiencing a mental illness will be able to identify with some of the symptoms of PD.
CaptK.. I think it’s excellent that your therapist shows an accurate understanding of your issues. Taking your wife can only be positive; she also sounds as if she has a good ‘take’ on things. It sounds like you are taking full advantage of the sessions. Doing the additional “home-work†can only have a positive outcome.
“Shame and abandonment†seem to be key issues for you. You are very honest about how they affect you on a daily basis. Do you know where they originate? Are you near any kind of diagnosis?
I have always felt my emotional and thought processes are different to other people. Many of my traits, that have been a problem for me, and a few other people, turn out to be symptoms of PD. I’ve already said what a revelation this has been. Suddenly I understand why life is such a challenge. It may not help my relationships with other people, but I’m sure the new-found understanding will help me deal with things a little better
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Hi Catb,
My abandonment issue is something I discussed with my Therapist. We discussed that It came from when I was about 3 and my Father left. He had left before and returned so I did something for his breakfast, he shouted at me for making a mess. This is the last time I seem him. My Therapist told me that my mind was too young to see this logically and I decided it was my fault he left forever after shouting at me (rejecting my special breakfast.) so. This is the first time I felt abandonment. I wonder if the shame comes from then as well.
My research is something that my Therapist has told me I should stop. But the way I can't help but see it is I feel something is really wrong with me. Imagine going to your G.P. with a lump and then being sent to a specialist who when you ask is it bad, they say "It's a lump, we are going to talk about it.." And then your family are basically saying "It's just a lump, I'm not bothered." "Oh yeah but keep going to see the specialist, you need it." If he gave me a diagnosis then at least I'd be able to see I have something I need to work on. Plus I'm the most impulsive person I know, by far. I can't help myself it just kicks in and I can't control myself.
I know I have felt distress and despair for years. My mind also has this crazy way of wiping my emotions from the day before. I can never really remember how I was feeling after I've felt it unless I articulate the emotions as I feel them. My Wife said I was a nasty piece of work in my last job. My therapist asked what was going on and I couldn't answer. Today I read a thing called 'Displacement' when you get frustrated and bottle it up and then dump the frustration on someone else, I'm going to ask if this is what I was doing.
I think learning about these traits gives us something we can work on. I've tried to knock a lot of what I do on the head. However I can't stop the pull push cycles no matter what. My wife was telling me today that I need to stop this, this is something I have absolutely no control of unless I pushed her away and left her away. I read somewhere that most people who suffer repeat bouts of depression tend to have a PD.
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I do not have borderline personality disorder, but I do have traits, and also, admittedly, some narcissistic traits as well. Fortunately, for reasons I do not understand, I seem to be self-aware, and so I have understood my borderline traits and why I have them for about 8 years, but I did not realise they were borderline traits until last year. I am lucky that I do not have a full blown borderline personality, I can honestly say manipulation doesn't form part of my social repertoire, and I don't fear rejection.
I think feeling as though you are constantly to blame is a common emotion in this circumstance, and I think also perhaps a concurrent acknowledgement that it isn't, combined with a sense of rage at the person persons who have made you feel like this.
I don't hold anger against people anymore, I've not allowed it to consume me. However, something I find difficult to reconcile in my mind is my incredible dominance, whilst simultaneously having great compassion for others.
I have noticed traits in a number of people I my family, two of which where key figures in my up bringing. One of these people was a very controlling individual, yet very loving.
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Hi Stevie,
I have been described as very manipulative. Honestly I struggle to see it except my Wife points out I'm a flirt with other women. I don't have any intention of anything of a sexual nature, it's just a way of drawing attention to myself. I know seduction is a form of manipulation I'm guessing this is a trait. In work I tend to work especially hard to draw attention to myself as I feel deserving of special treatment, I think this could be a trait also. With the employees I Work with I tend to waffle about myself and lie compulsively so they think I'm someone I'm not and I tend to think whoever I'm with is my 'best friend.' However I never want to listen to what they have to say. I get frustrated when they won't let me talk because they're talking, again I think these are more traits. I can never hold a job down as I get very bored with routine and it becomes unbearable. So I leave, I've had about 15 jobs in as many years. I don't like authority figures at all, they intimidate me to the point where for some reason I get tears in my eyes when they talk to me and I have to fight them back and I'm not talking being reprimanded, I'm talking a how's you day been type conversation. These are all things that seem like traits to me. Also my wife says I'm very dramatic, I go hot and cold all the time and she says she's weary of the next thing I'll do for attention.
I'm interested in what you said about seeing traits in your family, I do too. Obviously my Dad left and my Mum was very loving and very agressive and controlling. I was scared of voicing an opinion and I had no confidence at times. These behaviours or traits have continued through my adult life. Trying to draw attention to myself through fear of rejection.
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Hi, guys… +-_ just catching up with this thread and thought I would write a cat-essay…oops, sorry if I go on a bit...
IMO, most of our problems originate from childhood. My early memories are from approximately 3yrs old; they are not good. I have been through a lot of therapy, but still cannot work through some of the more painful issues. Subsequently, the relationship with my parents has suffered throughout this lifetime. How can you forgive someone who has no remorse?
I heard someone say on the Forum, “Letting go is letting beâ€. If this is true, then I have let go of most my childhood issues. They were once uppermost in my mind, haunting. If I were to go through therapy today, childhood would not be at the forefront of my mind.
CaptK, I totally understand your abandonment issue and agree it probably does come from the last time you seen your father. I wonder why you feel shame from that time.
I understand why the Therapist might feel cautious about you researching a diagnosis, but it doesn’t feel right to tell you to stop. How can anyone recover if they do not know what they’re recovering from?
I understand the “displacement†of anger. This is an issue I became aware of a few years ago. That trait still exists today, but it’s mostly under control. What is never under control is blowing hot and cold; CaptK calls it “push and pull cyclesâ€. That emotion can completely engulf every inch of my being. I absolutely hate myself for it. On a bad bout, I usually feel unable to make eye contact with other people.
Drawing attention to “ME†is something I know a lot about. It has stood in good stead with public speaking and general leadership. This trait is less about oozing with confidence, but more a self-centred desperation to be centre stage. However, I am a good listener and hold a genuine compassion for the plight of others, despite a stupid inherent belief that my issues are more important. This is something you learn to control through living life. None of us want to be too far up our own backside!
I have had a sh1t life. There is a need to use that experience to reach out to other people. I feel this belief is better than believing all that suffering was in vain.
I am very interested in what both Steve and CaptK were saying about certain traits running in families. Without doubt, I did learn many of my depressive traits from my mother. We are more alike than I like to admit. When researching PD, I could relate many of the symptoms to my Mum.
One thing I would like to finish on is something I am becoming more aware of in recent days. I have a deep shame for some of the PD traits. Let’s face it; the traits are not exactly personality of the year! So, I underplay a considerable amount of my PD; hide it like some kind of shameful secret. I even hide it from the Psychiatrist. This is something I probably need to work on at my next appointment.
This thread helps put my thoughts in order and almost come to terms with this new diagnosis. My posts tend to be a bit long, but I hope all of our posts, collectively, will be a source of info. Personality Disorder is not something we know a lot about. It’s good to have somewhere that helps gain a better understanding of a very debilitating condition.
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Hi Cat
Just picking up on something you said, who doesn't hide things from their psychiatrist? I admitted it to mine and she said that it was fine its a natural form of self defence and when we're comfortable it will come out.
I'm terrible I hide a lot of what I feel & it's true it's all in self defence partly from myself and partly from others.
I identify with the anxious, cluster c traits. I haven't really seen it in my family, then I haven't really looked. My past only really troubled me when I'm down.
I'll think more about this tomorrow, I'm tired & rambling.
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Hi All,
I must admit that there isn't any part of my childhood that I would have difficulty thinking about. From what I've been thinking about I remember my Dad leaving home. Then I remember some things which I would describe as abusive from my Mum. Her leaving me in the flat one night when I was about 3, she had asked a neighbor to keep an eye on me but from what I remember I'm sure their front door was shut. I remember her making me smoke a cigarette at the same age and I'm pretty sure I did a poop in the bath by accident and was made to clean the bath out.
After this I remember moving, not long after we moved I fell through a glass cabinet, I vivid remember walking backwards and seeing the chair I was walking backwards to sit on in front of me and thinking and thinking 'why is that next to me?' then I fell backwards, I was walking backwards to sit on it and completely missed it and went straight through a glass cabinet that was full of beer glasses. I don't remember anything after falling, apparently I was covered in blood but I don't remember a thing after the fall.
At this time I was really lonely. I was in my room all the time. It was like one minute I was adored and the next I was hated (Pull/Push?) I packed my bags twice because I thought there was no point living there if nobody loved me. There was a string of boyfriends come and go while I sat in my bedroom. Every time I did something wrong I got punched or kicked. Then my cousin moved in as his Mum threw him out (he was later diagnosed as a schizophrenic.) It wasn't all bad, more lonely than anything. I always felt lonely. This carried on into high school, then I realized that if I got good grades I got special attention and then the attention seeking started. Then my Mum started her binge drinking and used to drag me out of bed in the middle of the night and give me loads of verbal abuse about how I was ungrateful and was lucky and once I she tried to take an overdose in front of me.
I've done 3 PD tests now, one says I am 86%-90% histrionic another said 'Your score indicates that you have histrionic personality disorder, we advise you contact a local psychiatrist for evaluation.' and another said "You should seriously consider that the person you described in the test has histrionic personality disorder."
This is a general personality test: http://similarminds.com/global-adv.html
Extraversion |||||||||||||||||||| 83%
Stability 0%
Orderliness 0%
Accommodation |||||| 22%
Intellectual |||||||||||| 41%
Interdependence |||||||||||||||||||||| 100%
Mystical |||||||||| 33%
Materialism |||||||||||||||||| 75%
Narcissism |||||||||||| 50%
Adventurousness |||||||||||||||| 66%
Work ethic |||||||||| 33%
Conflict seeking |||||| 25%
Need to dominate |||||||||||||||||| 75%
Romantic |||||||||||||||||||||| 100%
Avoidant 0%
Anti-authority |||||||||||||||||||||| 100%
Wealth 0%
Dependency || 5%
Change averse 0%
Cautiousness 0%
Individuality |||||||||||||||| 66%
Sexuality |||||||||||||||||||||| 100%
Peter pan complex |||||||||||||||| 66%
Histrionic |||||||||||||||||||||| 100% %$£
Vanity |||||||||||||||||||||| 91%
Artistic |||||||||||| 41%
Hedonism |||||||||||||||||||||| 94%
Physical fitness |||| 16%
Religious 0%
Paranoia |||||||||| 33%
Hypersensitivity 0%
Indie 0%
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That's very interesting CaptK what you say. I will respond to your post later today. I have the CPN at 9am. I will also try make time to do that test today
Later...
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Hi Catb,
I find in that test it doesn't just directly point towards the Histrionic but also other Traits of HPD i.e. Extroversion, Interdependence (relying on other people to see me as a good person?) Materialism, Need to dominate, Romantic, Sexuality, Histrionic, Vanity are from what I've read potential traits and I score high in them. Hedonism, from what I read on that website sounds very similar to Histrionic. Also Change averse and Cautiousness I scored very low on, well 0% and I'm incredibly impulsive. The anti authority thing, embarrassing to admit but I have been arrested twice drawing the Polices attention to myself ::)
I think back to my first session in therapy to my answers. Namely how I socialize "I tend to find a group of people that won't reject and then I want to be the alpha male in that group." High school "I started doing really well in school and enjoyed the praise and attention, as soon as it stopped I went off the rails and started hanging around with trouble makers. Like they say, bad attention is better than no attention." Work "I like to think I'm the best at everything I do, I like to really express myself in work and think I deserve special treatment for it. As soon as the praise stops and I get criticized, I leave the job. I'm narcissistic aren't I? " my therapist replied " Your not narcissistic, I would have spotted it as soon as you walked in."
My Wife has said I'm a drama queen, she doesn't know what I'm going to do next for attention. she calls me a womanizer and a flirt. I've been described as a pycho for not expressing my true emotions, also very complicated. Always looking for praise. When I express emotions she thinks they are all exaggerated, i.e. depressed or elated, insecure (abandonment issue) angry, a bully, manipulative, controlling and jealous.
I really need to stop worrying about what I have though as its not helping. As they say curiosity killed the cat, but try putting the most impulsive person you know in a room from 2 weeks with a present for them and tell not to touch it! I'd last an hour.
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I just wanted my scores on the same page so as to compare...
Paranoid 74%
Schizoid 74%
Schizotypal 74%
Antisocial 34%
Borderline 66%
Histrionic 78%
Narcissistic 54%
Avoidant 26%
Dependent 42%
Obsessive-Compulsive 54%
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I've posted this on the other thread I started but here's mine.
Paranoid |||||||||||| 50% 50%
Schizoid |||||| 26% 40%
Schizotypal |||||||||||| 42% 56%
Antisocial |||||| 30% 46%
Borderline |||||||||||| 50% 45%
Histrionic |||||||||||||||||||| 90% 35%
Narcissistic |||||| 30% 40%
Avoidant |||||||||||| 46% 48%
Dependent |||||||||||||| 58% 44%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||||||| 58% 45%
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I was just reading your scores. Just making dinner.... will come back later to look at them in more detail. I notice you're also more Histrionic...pew 90%. I have very high scores for paranoid, schizoid and schizotypal, which is no surprise!
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I find when I've had a push cycle my cluster a scores go up to 75% my borderline goes up to around 75% too! My narsasistic score goes down to about 10% and my avoidant score goes up to 70ish but my histrionic drops to low 80's
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Just done the test. Heres mine
Paranoid |||||||||||||||||| 78% 50%
Schizoid |||||||||| 34% 40%
Schizotypal || 10% 56%
Antisocial || 10% 46%
Borderline |||||||||||||||| 62% 45%
Histrionic |||||||||| 38% 35%
Narcissistic |||||| 26% 40%
Avoidant |||||||||||||||||| 74% 48%
Dependent |||||||||||||||||| 74% 44%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||||||||||| 74% 45%
ummm seem to score quite highly on a few of them. Its not surprising though I did identify highly with cluster c which incorporates the last three and all three are connected with anxiety which I have in abundance. The paranoia stems from the bipolar, I think.
Maybe this explains why i am constantly anxious etc.
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It's interesting to see the results of different people. The thing that interests me most is Catb's test compared to the diagnosis. Makes me wonder that the high histrionic score was actually a lot higher
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I just wanted my scores to be on the same page so as to compare
Paranoid 74%
Schizoid 74%
Schizotypal 74%
Antisocial 34%
Borderline 66%
Histrionic 78%
Narcissistic 54%
Avoidant 26%
Dependent 42%
Obsessive-Compulsive 54%
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It has been an eventful day for one reason and another. The PD test is an eye opener and much of what CaptK writes is interesting, even identifiable (if that's the right word). I'm tired so it's off to bed for an early night
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Night night Cat
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Hi All,
Today my wife's gone the hospital. Her mum has been diagnosed with cancer and when she left I felt my abandonment issue quite intense. It feels like anger, jealousy and loneliness all in one emotion and its strong. I was thinking to myself 'this is unfair on me.' But I know it's not. Then I think 'I'll show her for leaving me.' That's not fair on her. If I say anything I know I'll get called selfish, but I'm not. I just hate this emotion, I bet when she gets home I won't be able to look at her or talk to her. I'll just appologise for my behaviour and explain its not her fault. I doubt she'll understand though.
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She's back and I'm okay, maybe this Therapy and awareness is helping!
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One of the things I admire about you, CaptK, is your honesty, mainly with yourself. The insight you have is inspirational. Although, I appreciate the insight doesn’t exactly make everything better, but hopefully it does make it manageable.
This afternoon, I was thinking how much easier it is to live with certain traits when there is a good understanding of what they’re all about. It sounds like you were having a taste of that today
Today, having a better understanding of PD, it feels like there is a little more control over it. It sort of feels like suddenly being able to take a step back and see those powerful emotions, and associated behaviours, for what they really are. I wonder if others feel as if their MH issues are like a separate entity to the real you. They manifest against our wishes and seem to have a mind and a will of their own.
I would agree that your own awareness did help you deal with the abandonment issue today. I could almost feel the strength of those emotions from your post. Were you able to discuss this with your wife at some point after she returned? I think that would be very beneficial in helping you take more control of those issues.
The powerful and raw emotions in your post today, felt so very familiar and conjured up (or should I say exhumed?!!) memories of painful emotions in my distant past. I have had lots of flitting “affairs†in my younger days, and had 2.5 serious long-term/live in partners. I suppose you could say my own “abandonment issues†did cause a number of problems within those relationships. It’s odd; these issues are not very easy to remember or to admit. I have no memory or reasoning of where they originate, I doubt it is with my parents, but maybe it is…
My memory does me no favours trying to remember specific symptoms of PD. I wonder if abandonment features somewhere in there. It feels a little odd to be fifty and only discovering certain new things about myself. Considering I have always been a “soul-searcherâ€, this feels a little weird.
As always…. A very thought provoking thread…
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I agree with Cat, your high level of insight must help you get through situations that are tricky for you.
I need to read/think more about this one. I'm not surprised with the way my pd test turned out but for me the bipolar diagnosis explains a lot & my mood cycles are far too long for those associated with PD. that leaves me thinking that it could be comorbid, it explains the other bits that happen in between mood swings & anxiety etc. The question is if this was the case is it something I want to pursue? At present I don't think so, the bipolar label causes me enough headaches!
Food for thought!
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BC... I've never been one for looking through MH illness's and conditions; always thought it would put ideas into my head. I do not know a lot about PD or Bipolar. However, at a guess, I would think many of the traits of BP are similar to some of the traits of PD. I have both highs and lows of PD and probably BP. I am on one of those highs at the moment but it is largely under control with the amount of meds I'm using. However, it is still tough and relentless and never very pleasant. At the end of the day, even a psychiatrist would have difficulty pigeon holing the more complex patients. I think the only thing that's important is that we identify and understand the traits of our particular condition. I think we all agree, understanding the traits puts us back in control of the situation.
I love this thread, it is always thought provoking.... almost like group therapy online.
Time for me to go off line; try chill for a while before bed
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I know what you mean, there is always the danger of having things put in your head. I think for me, I'd like to understand my anxiety more because it bothers me in some way more than the bipolar! I'm hoping that when I have my psychological assessment there will be some answers but at the same time I'm scared.
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I think that my problem is that I've been putting ideas in my head. To me though I think my highs and lows are exclusively linked to my 'abandonment issue.' For me praise leads to elation, criticism leads to distress or depression but I'm wondering if this is linked to my 'core belief thats out of place' (my therapists words.) core beliefs are responsible for our inner personality. I'd like to know a bit more about Bi Polar, my episodes of euphoria last a few hours tops and come from praise. Depression tends to occur when I get criticised I.e. reprimanded in work. I think I send most of my time in a neutral mood. Especially if I'm alone.
I'm a little confused about today. My wife has actually said I've been distant, quiet and snappy. She also said I've spent a lot of time on my phone (I blame you guys, lol!) but the thing is I haven't noticed my behaviour being off. She has asked when I'm seeing my Therapist again because she wants to know what's going on. Usually on a push cycle I can tell because I feel really frustrated with her, I almost can't stand her being around. Today I just felt like I wanted to do my own thing. I wouldn't say I was exactly pushing her away but it's interesting she has said this after this mornings post.
I've tried to explain my abandonment issue to her but she asks me questions like I decide its outcome. The problem is it tends to blind side me and I think it's more sub conscious than conscious. How do you explain it to someone? It's like indigestion with anger, jealousy and lonliness and tends to make me feel like there's a void inside me and I feel impulsive when I feel like that.
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Trying to put the way we feel into words is so hard, when I do it all comes out sounding pathetic!
My cycles tend to last weeks/months. In between I feel relatively alright but criticism knocks me, I get very hypersensitive to it, positive comments always leave questions in my mind and no comments freaks me out! When I'm low the feelings are far more intense.
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Interesting, I can't stand it when I talk to someone and they don't respond. It makes me feel kind of invisible and really frustrated. I hate it when people waffle on at me, I want them to listen to me more than the other way round. Unless they are talking about something I'm interested in. If they talk about something I'm not interested in or about themselves I quickly seem to turn the convo to me. The thing is I enjoy talking about me but it makes me feel frustrated at the same time. Like the internal void starts opening or something. That strange hole that makes me feel empty and vulnerable like people can see straight through me like I have a deep dark secret that I'm ashamed of.
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I have to say I empathise with that. I find it hard to concentrate if people waffle on too long. I tend to avoid talking to people & if I do struggle to think of things to say.
Day to day I struggle at work, if I do something I have a need to be told its right or good, the problem is this doesn't happen in the world I work in and leaves me questioning myself or asking if its ok. I over seek reassurance.
What is your therapists theory Captain K?
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I'm not sure at the moment. Things we've discussed is my abandonment issue, shame, attachment issues, faulty core belief and he was very interested in my vulnerable child personality mode and we discussed my happy child.
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Interesting, it would be nice if he gave you some clues!
My assessment is to try & help with my deep anxiety about, well most things! I don't really know what to make of it.
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I get anxious quite a bit too. For what my therapist said I think anxiety comes from the vulnerable child personality mode
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I can go into a blind panic over the slightest thing sometimes. The anxiety is ever present it intensifies when my mood is higher/lower than normal.
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Better log off now. Night xxx
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Now I'm paranoid that I've been waffling on too much! Yesterday I did the test again. It came out much the same, but with a higher paranoia @ 90%.
I've been awake most of the night, tossing and turning, the head racing. Imagine how I'd be without the meds. My CPN (she's also a CBT therapist) keeps doubting the BP diagnosis, but this irritates me because she has only known me since I started the meds, so has little to go on. I may well agree, but that's not the point.
Unless it is a psychiatrists telling me an opinion/diagnosis, I am reluctant to listen to someone less qualified; who are THEY to tell US? I feel my awareness and knowledge is such that there's not a lot they can tell me about MYSELF that I don't already know. But, maybe that's the narcissistic side of me
BC It's natural that you're anxious about your psychological assessment. The thought of being assessed is enough to make anyone paranoid. Your biggest issue seems to be anxiety.
CaptK... it sounds to me like your wife has a greater understanding and is probably on the look out for tell tale signs. I wonder if you are both too much affected by this to be able to view things as objectively. Would there be any scope for you both getting therapy together?
I think there's a fine line between putting ideas into our head and developing a greater understanding.
Have a nice day folks!
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Good one Cat, I think a lot of cpn's are used to seeing people with happy euphoric mania. Mine admitted she had seen very few with the dysphoric form & was less sure of how it manifested itself since a lot of the symptoms are fairly internal. Externally I talk faster & tend to tap feet, fiddle with my hair etc.
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I don't think I'm having too good a day today. I keep finding myself drifting off into space. I got a bath before and drifted off before I knew it the red hot bath I got into was stone cold. I find I'm avoiding people today, I'm in a low mood, not really low just unmotivated, disinterested. I feel like I'm pushing people away slightly. I'm not aware of the push so much, more the fact that my wife keeps asking me what she's done wrong, why am I giving her the silent treatment. I understand that giving someone the silent treatment is passive aggressive but it's not what I'm doing, I think I'm just clearing some space to think. I wonder if we can behave in a way we can seem 'off' to other people and not notice it some much in ourselves?
Today I'm feeling a little frustrated. Irritated inside, last night I didn't get to sleep until about 3 then had a dream my wife was cheating on me. I suppose this wont help either! I tend to have quite a lot of these dreams. I wake feeling down, good start to the day. Still no news for Therapy, hope my wife doesn't come with me. I couldn't handle her sitting criticising me at the moment. To be honest I feel like I'm giving up on my future at the moment, I need purpose, something to aim for but I keep thinking my abandonment issue will wreck any chance of achieving anything. So it's got to be therapy, when he can be arsed. Sorry for the vent
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Just wanted to show you guys something.
These are my scores in a normal mood.
Paranoid |||||||||||| 50% 50%
Schizoid |||||| 26% 40%
Schizotypal |||||||||||| 42% 56%
Antisocial |||||| 30% 46%
Borderline |||||||||||| 50% 45%
Histrionic |||||||||||||||||||| 90% 35%
Narcissistic |||||| 30% 40%
Avoidant |||||||||||| 46% 48%
Dependent |||||||||||||| 58% 44%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||||||| 58% 45%
My scores today, in a low mood.
Paranoid |||||||||||||||| 70% 50%
Schizoid |||||| 26% 40%
Schizotypal |||||||||||||| 58% 56%
Antisocial |||||| 22% 46%
Borderline |||||||||||||||| 62% 45%
Histrionic |||||||||||||||||| 74% 35%
Narcissistic || 10% 40%
Avoidant |||||||||||||||| 70% 48%
Dependent |||||||||||| 50% 44%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||||||| 58% 45%
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I am having a similar sort of day and thankful I only have myself to contend with. If anyone was with me, I wouldn't be able to look them in the eye, that's a horrible feeling.
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CaptK... Interestingly, your scores still mainly tip the same balance, except the paranoia and avoidant. You are high scored in the same traits
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I find it interesting how I didn't really notice much about my behaviour but my histrionic dropped 15% and my avoidant went up about 25% and my wife pointed out I was avoiding her. I still think my histrionic is high, if I consider my last job and my marriage in general I score so high. I wonder if it comorbidity or something. I just don't know. To be fair though a push cycle is being avoidant, just that I didn't spot it.
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I've never heard of comorbidity.... something to research later. I hope you feel a little better today
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I definitely feel like I'm going through a push cycle now. Wanting to be alone, feel like nobody cares, like everyone's going to let me down. It's a funny feeling, it's not as intense as it can be but it's still there in the background and its still driving how I interact with people.
I think sometimes I have 'emotional storms' where I'm churned up inside by emotions and when they go I feel drained by them and usually have a headache. These 'emotion storms' can churn up all sorts of emotion euphoria, anger, sadness but they seem to relate to internal events as appossed to what's going on around.
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Does anyone else get hit by emotions that just seem overwhelming. Today I was having a pretty straightforward sort of day, just getting on with things then the next thing I know I'm fuming, then I'm feeling fed up. Where does this stuff come from? I think it's called abandonment depression and all because I left my wife at home to tidy up while I went out. Then I'm thinking, why didn't she want to come with me? Stupid things like that hit me square. By the time I seem her, I'm blanking her. I was watching the tv then she said "why are you scowling?" I didn't even notice but I was sat there with a really evil expression on my face.
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I get overwhelming emotions or find different situations overwhelming but not in the same way.
Xxx
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I think this is what my Therapist was talking about when he spoke of my core belief. He said something about when I interact with other people and I take something negatively it contradicts what I think about myself. Normally people see themselves as a good person and can shrug off critism, whoever because of my core belief I gauge my feelings of self worth on how other people see me and when they contradict how I feel about myself it causes a strong emotional response.
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In some ways I do similar, if I'm down & someone does something that upsets me ( this doesn't need to be real it can be perceived) I will dwell on it far too much but I'm different in that I will not let them know either by words or expressions.
How do you feel now?
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I'm okay now buttercup. I've just been reading about HPD and some of the stuff makes me laugh and cringe! 'May refare to Councelor by first name within first 5 meetings.' For me it was 2. I'm not saying I'm HPD but everything I've read describes everything I've spoke about in therapy and on here. Hope your okay Buttercup!
Check this out.
http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/histrionic-personality-disorder
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Will have a look. My Psych only ever uses her first name!
Xxx
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Had a quick read, it was very interesting & I can see how it fit in with what you've been saying.
Glad you're feeling better.
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I read about the sub types and the one that I would say describes me is the infantile with borderline traits. I wouldn't say I dress provocatively though, but I do tend to wear expensive clothes. Saying that I'm a man so a dress and bright red lipstick probably wouldn't go down well! I find I get a really strong emotion for about 4 hours then it passes. I think the pull push thing is a BPD thing and the 'black and white' thinking is. I tend to see people as 'good' or 'bad' this is a defense mechanism to deal with rejection.
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Yes I can understand that. I have a need to be liked. The interesting thing with bipolar is that when I'm low, my low self esteem stops me making friends in add I'm not liked, or makes me think maybe people just talk to me just to be kind. Then when I'm high, much higher than I am now, I think that I'm better than them!
I'm off to sleep now. Night xx
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Just had my next appointment through which is in march that means I'm get one appointment per month.
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That doesn't sound nearly often enough!!!
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I know, I'm going to speak to him about it when I get there. I've also got an appointment with my G.P. before that. I guess this is to see how I'm getting on with my AD prescription. I don't really think they are working though as I'm still having moments of feeling really down. The thing is now its basically been three months of soul searching so I don't know what to talk about in therapy.
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What AD are you taking?
I just think that for them to really understand you and for you to build up the type of relationship with them that you need to, you need to see them a lot more often.
xxx
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Hi there Buttercup,
I'm on Citalopram. Although I don't think it's working for my low moods, I have found my anxiety has gone and I was having a lot of headaches which seem to have stopped mostly. I've noticed my confidence has gone up a bit. I don't know if these have Anything to do with the AD but these problems have been going on a while and seemed to have stopped at once, although another factor which coul have played a part is I've stopped drinking coffee which would probably stop all these things.
How's things your end?
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I think citalopram is meant to do something for anxiety. Tell your GP that you don't think it's doing much for your low mood.
I'm muddling along! I see my support worker most weeks & GP/psychiatrist as needed.
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It says on the instructions that low doses are for anxiety, higher doses are for low moods. I'm presuming that they want to see how I respond before they up the dose. I must admit I don't feel low all the time, I tend to have a dip for a few hours, sometimes not everyday but they tend to last a few hours. I've noticed I can soul search better when my mood is low.
A lot of what I've read about HPD, if someone reads it makes it sound like people with HPD are consciously doing these things, I tend to do a lot of the stuff I've read and 'exaggerate expressions of emotions' is something that stood out. But if your feeling of self worth is regulated by other people and they critise you, I get bad bouts of depression from this. So it might seem to other people like I'm dramatic but I'd like to say how would anyone respond to someone who made them feel really depressed? Same with praise, tends to make me feel like I'm a great person. Some things make me cringe and laugh, here's one for a giggle 'Grand entrances' I walked into a sports hall with about 15 parents and their kids at shouted 'Ta-Da' like now the parties started because I'm here. :P
I'm going to discuss this with my Therapist, I found a list of 75 traits and I can see most of them or my wife has pointed out to me. I originally went there professing to be narsassitic but narsassists aren't vulnerable to criticism. I think histrionics could be a personality that swings from narsasistic to borderline, that's my theory anyway. Wouldn't someone who swings from narsasistic to Borderline be emotionally exhausting?
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Hmmmm I don't know a lot about HPD but what you have wrote makes sense. It's difficult to regulate your own mood when it's determined by the actions of others. I think that therapy should give you strategies to lesson this effect, well if you had it frequently enough, but I guess you need the official diagnosis first. On that note I think it's a really good idea to go with your list. They really do seem to be dragging their heals over this one, which isn't fair on you.
My depressions etc last weeks & it's more the other way around, in that if I'm down I will really dwell on the actions of others.
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Yeah Buttercup you are right about learning the lessons to deal with it. I had quite a talk with my wife before and she even said I should ask for an appointment with a psychiatrist if I have no luck with my therapist, but I think C.B.T. helps with it anyway. I just find that when I'm in Therapy I make it all about me, my Therapist has to sit there and listen, obviously I need to shut up and listen.
My wife came out with a lot of things she said I need to change before and a lot of what she said where actual traits of HPD. Before I read about it I would have denied these behaviours and now I think wow I've spotted something and she's pointing out the rest. Next time I see my therapist I'm going to ask him to seriously consider this. I think that my mum might be HPD, she shows a lot of signs. It says that children of HPD parents grow up finally wanting to be seen, heard and understood (for me I think they have manifested in HPD traits) and an expectation that their needs won't be met (I think this would be my avoidant trait) the avoidant trait I see in myself is a feeling of unworthiness. Maybe this is the thing from HPD that says uncomfortable in situations where they are not the centre of attention. If I'm not centre of attention I feel worthless and get really frustrated. I have day where I'm confident then I'm centre of attention and days where I'm really quiet and avoid people but that is when I feel worthless and hate myself. I also noticed in my therapy session with my wife a lot of the talk was HPD based. Exaggerated emotions, being dramatic, easily influenced by people, attention seeking, sensitive to critism and forming unhealthy attachments to people and all this was my Wife and Therapists words. I really want this to be considered as I personally think it would be diagnosable.
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I don't know if your therapist would be able to diagnose it, it may well be the case that a psychiatrist has too. That's how it is with bipolar anyway. My GP told me she suspected it but only the psych could diagnose it.
I think if I were you I'd have a chat with your GP.
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Hi Buttercup,
Thanks for all your replies, honestly I can't tell you how good it is to have your replies. I was reading about Bi-Polar last night. I didn't realise but with Bi-Polar your feelings of self worth can go from worthlessness to grandiose. This is something I'm going to bear in mind. I took a general mental health test last night and I got flagged in 5 categories general coping, mania, smoking, relationship and borderline traits. Then it advised me doing specific tests for Bi-Polar and it said type 2 Bi-Polar is likely and it said on the BPD test that severe borderline personality likely which was quite upsetting really as I felt I was minimising my answers. I've even asked my Therapist if he thought I was borderline and he said no, I agree with him but will admit I do behave the same with abandonment, my wife has said that she feels guilty going the shop.
I hope Catb comes back soon, I've really enjoyed talking to her too. When Catb posts I can really relate to what she writes and it's nice reading her posts. I'd like to know a bit more about her diagnosis. I've read that Bi-Polar has to be observed over 2 years before its diagnosable. I wish I'd been the doctors a lot more when I was having problems, rather than getting on with it. Maybe I would have got somewhere by now. I got to the point where I felt I couldn't cope anymore in life and then looked for help. Now I feel the G.P. and T are playing things down which kind of makes it worse. I might ask for the G.P. who referred me for Therapy as she was a lot more understanding and didn't use comments that minimised what I was saying. My G.P. says things like "everyone gets stressed now and then." "There's a lot of depression going round." I felt like saying "Ah, I must of caught it on the train!" Lol.
I'm wondering if other people see it as an uphill battle against the N.H.S.? I get the feeling sometimes that I'd have to do something stupid before I get taken serious. Then I think why should I? Punishing myself to prove a point is stupid. I admitted to my therapist I'd had thoughts of self harm and that I'd done it before and he didn't even reply, just changed the subject then cancelled the next appointment. It's the fact that I have kids and want them to have a structured environment that stops me doing these things. My Therapist said that depression is caused by 3 things feeling of 'I am worthless' people make me feel like this really easy. 'No one cares about me' my friends don't keep in touch and my family and the N.H.S. seem dismissive with me and 'Nothing can change' For the first time in my life I realise that my abandonment issue causes me to pull apart anything constructive I do, my wife tells me she's had enough and Therapist keeps cancelling. I'd say logically these are strong enough reasons to cause depression. Hopefully I can get a positive response from my G.P.
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Okay, thought I'd do a test this morning as I'm feeling quite good today:-
Paranoid |||||||||||||||| 62% 50%
Schizoid |||||| 26% 40%
Schizotypal |||||||||||| 50% 56%
Antisocial |||||||||| 34% 46%
Borderline |||||||||||||| 54% 45%
Histrionic |||||||||||||||||||| 90% 35%
Narcissistic |||||||||||||||| 62% 40%
Avoidant |||||||||||| 46% 48%
Dependent |||||||||||||| 58% 44%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||||| 50% 45%
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Hi guys +-_
That is a nice thing for you to say in your last post, CaptK, especially at the moment, when I am feeling worthless. You have really made me laugh today. The last time I looked “down belowâ€, I had a ‘little man’ and not a ‘little lady’!!!(http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/lol-045.gif) (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)
I have actually been around the Forum these past few days, keeping track of what people say. However, sometimes my entire emotional state is completely dumb and, unbelievably, I have difficulty finding the words to write. I am calling this my “dead-cycles†because that’s exactly what I feel like.
Before the PD diagnosis, I did put these phases down to depression. Now I see them strongly connecting with cluster A of PD. The suspicious and paranoid thought processes are particularly potent and I usually feel emotionally cold, preferring my own company. I have difficulty thinking straight and can have eccentric and odd thoughts and some strange behaviour. Unfortunately, these are all consistent with the Cluster A headings of Paranoia, Schizoid, and Schizotypal
People have difficulty understanding the extent of our debilitating depressive symptoms. I think this is because they commonly misinterpret depression, in general. Most people, at some point in their life, have had experience of mild depression. They mistakenly interpret our acute illness as being similar to theirs. If we were lucky enough to suffer mild symptoms of depression, then we too could “pull ourselves together†or “just get on with itâ€. It must be frustrating for our loved ones to view our circumstances like this; to believe we are capable of “soldiering onâ€. Rather than feel upset, I suppose we should be grateful they would never fully understand our personal hell.
CaptK, I think the way your therapist has been conducting himself is not very good. What benefit monthly sessions are to anyone in the initial stages of therapy, I will never understand. But, to then cancel appointments and not give you another asap, is taking the p1ss. This is how my last Psychiatrist conducts his business and I can understand how frustrating it must feel.
I agree with what BC said a few posts ago, Therapists or even GP’s are not qualified to make MH diagnosis. IMO, they are not qualified to discuss this with the “clientâ€, unless of course, they are echoing what a Psychiatrist is saying. Take this advice from someone who has been through similar experiences with HIS CMHT, request an assessment by the Consultant Psychiatrist. Not only will you benefit from an official diagnosis, I believe you would enjoy the whole process. As part of that assessment, the Psychiatrist will give recommendations for treatment and will refer you onto whatever kind of therapy you will benefit from. I feel you will get a lot from a more intense period of therapeutic care.
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Hi Catb,
Emotionally numb, again another thing I understand. I feel something I would call apathetic sometimes. I'm not interested in other people's problems. I guess I would come across as having no empathy or sympathy, oh well.
I thought from your name it was Catherine? Oops! With you not posting for a few days I now feel. Oh yeah my best mate in the whole worlds back! (Trait!?!) Oh and my mood is getting very elated ^&^ definite attachment issue!
I think I'm going to ask if I can see a psychiatrist. I saw one in the Army, refused treatment and was discharged with mild depression. I don't think mild depression has an episode of self harm in it? I'm currently considering the fact that I might be a pain in the backside during therapy. But honestly I will let him get a word in soon, I swear! I found a list of thing Histrionic people think, check this out...
...that you are minimizing everything, and it's not fair.
...that an acquaintance is a friend.
...that it's always their turn to talk, to be heard, and to be assisted.
...that if they get the sniffles, it is terminal.
*cringing* I must admit I'm guilty of these a lot. I know a PD is a serious problem but some of the things I read make me cringe and laugh.
Okay, my post is starting to show I'm getting a little Over Excited! I'm going to be serious now. As I said I've got to a point in life where I've really had enough of my behaviour. It's destroying my marriage at times, I can't hold down a job because I get really bored and frustrated and feel I don't get the appreciation I deserve. My social life I feel people don't bother that much with me, I tend to try and out do people at times. So I guess they get fed up with it. How would I go about get an evaluation off a psychiatrist? Speak to my therapist or G.P. I feel like they would get annoyed with me for asking. I originally went for help in October and am not getting far. I really think if I got a diagnosis it would be a wake up call as I'm taking my situation lightly at times and other times I'm struggling with it. This is a Trait of HPD to being unable to see the situation from a realistic perspective. I can't see how you can though, I read about emotion amnesia which is a good way of putting things as I don't tend to forget how I felt a lot. When I'm feeling something I can explain it strongly, when I'm no I say dunno?
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I doubt the Therapist will think you are a pain in the backside. You should be doing most of the talking. Neither GP nor Therapist will be annoyed if you ask for a referral to a Psychiatrist for assessment. I would think the GP is the best person to ask first. They can only see it as positive that you are showing motivation to get to grips with things.
It’s odd, I did score high for HPD but I cannot identify with most of those traits. What you wrote in the last post about how HPD think, meant nothing.
I have been living with severe symptoms of PD for years, but have been able to cover this up, appearing to be warmer, more interested and compassionate than I truly feel. I think the recognition of certain traits should bring about a need in us to strive for change. It would be unhealthy if I were to simply accept I was emotionally cold and then just exert that side of my personality without trying to be interested in other people; at the very least, pretending.
Getting our feet under the table of the MH teams does take a lot of time and patience. This is our illness and chance of recovery. It pays to persevere and push for what you need.
It’s been an eventful day and I need an early night. I will catch up with things tomorrow
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Hi CaptainK
I agree with Catb, I don't think either would mind but I'd ask the GP first.
Yes my feelings of self worth can go from feeling awful, like I'm the last b person anyone would want to be around, I'm useless etc to grandiose, which for me tends to take the form that I am just about better than everyone else etc. it's an interesting mix.
My bp was diagnosed relatively quickly. I'd had symptoms for years but had done nothing then had a mini breakdown at work & went to my GP who started treating me for depression. I saw her every couple of weeks & she read between the lines & suggested bipolar. In the mean time the ads sent me high& I saw the psychiatrist who confirmed 3 days later.
Off to bed now xxx
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Really interesting post from you there Catb. I'm going to see my G.P. next week. I will speak to her about how my C.B.T. is going, she did ask me for an update obviously he cancelled my next appointment, I think I will be totally honest with her and tell her that when he cancels that its having a big impact on my moods and feelings of self worth. As I say it's even taken me to the point of thinking of self harming to prove I'm feeling this bad. I won't do it though as I have children and I really don't want that type of behavior around them but it does concern me that it's springing to mind at times.
I read the diagnosis criteria for BPD and would say I have a few that I would say are notable:
1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is called "splitting."
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. (Although I wouldn't say markedly.)
There are a few that I think are I feel slightly but to diagnose it needs to be strong.
However with HPD I would say I would instantly meet 6 of the criteria and the other two I tend to do from time to time.
Night everyone!
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My plan of action today, I'm going to find something constructive to do when I'm feeling impulsive instead of trying to diagnose myself. This probably causes more harm than good. Any good ideas?
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I think you should speak to the GP and Therapist about the impact the cancellations have on you. It is imperative for anyone in therapy to feel the sessions are important and valuable. Cancelling or taking calls is not appropriate. You also need a bit more input than once per month. The GP will understand this.
Through my recent internet research and posting on here, I am developing a good understanding of PD and, more importantly, how it affects my life.
My original diagnosis was under cluster B, Emotionally Unstable/Borderline. Since then, I also score high for Histrionic. I suppose I do identify with some of those traits, but not as much as Borderline.
What does trouble me, is the part of my character that emerges occasionally. The part of my personality that isn’t the Mr Nice-compassionate-understanding-Guy.
I struggle to accept this side of my personality; the side that usually causes problems amongst close friends, relationships and especially with family. The symptoms of cluster A, perfectly portrays my problems
Paranoid: Suspicious, feeling people are being indirectly nasty, which can easily lead to feeling rejection and holding grudges.
Schizoid: Emotionally cold, don’t like contact, preferring own company
Schizotypal: Eccentric with odd ideas, difficulty thinking straight, and a severe lack of emotion
A blessing is that I only have bouts of cluster A, and most of it takes place inside my head. Whereas cluster B, is a consistent part of me.
This thread has meant a great deal to me. It is helping understand and come to terms with PD. There are two NHS services specifically for people with PD, but I need to put a car on the road to be able to travel to them 2-3 times per week for 18 months. They sound excellent and I imagine they will prove invaluable.
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Hi Catb,
I must admit, I am confused by my personality. For me I would say I can relate to a lot of what is written about Histrionics but they sound very outgoing and dramatic. Where as I find myself really quiet and stand to one side a lot of the time but feel really frustrated that nobody is interested in me, to the point where I feel kind of insulted but I am worried about speaking up incase I'm critised and rejected by people. However once I get going and start talking I tend to turn attention towards me. I wouldn't say I'm overly dramatic but then I don't think a man can get away with this where a female could. I find if I'm talking to people I tell the my whole life story. I'm very, very open and I would said its very impressionistic, I've read what people write about people with HPD and its sounds a lot like me. I've noticed it in therapy that I will say things and it sounds like I'm lying because I'll tell him I feel really depressed and it doesn't sound convincing at all. I mentioned self harm like I was talking about my eatin my tea or watching the telly.
I could go through all the diagnosis criteria and discuss in depth how it fits. The thing is though I think a lot of traits of HPD I would do with more confidence. Like I always feel like bursting in the therapists office but I don't, so for me I think the behaviour is there but without the confidence and the thing I'm working on in therapy is confidence and self esteem. Maybe actually this could do as much harm as good as I think more traits would present themselves as I believe I would truly be the life an soul of every party then as appossed to ones I feel comfortable in.
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If I feel people are not showing an interest, it can make me feel down and introvert. I used to do a lot of part time work in pubs and loved going on show behind the bar with my Glaswegian patter. I’m not so sure if I could do it now, but the trait remains the same.
Looking through the internet, searching for symptoms that match mine, was not something I ever felt comfortable doing. I am quite impressionable; researching MH conditions would only put ideas into my head. Back in 2000, I was diagnosed with PTSD secondary to depression. Whenever I periodically met the Psychiatrist over the years, I was usually banging on about there being “something moreâ€. Typical Psychiatrist, he would always turn the question back at me, but I didn’t have a clue about mental illness/conditions
Every time I went to see the Psychiatrist, he writes a brief letter to the GP and sends a copy to me. About this time last year, he wrote saying, “Brian is suffering agoraphobiaâ€. I thought he was talking about someone else until I read about it on the net; he was spot on.
Fast forward a few months later, when a different Psychiatrist added Personality Disorder to the list. It still took 4-5 months before I would research PD on the net. Every time my CPN paid a visit, she urged me to look it up. They both knew how significant this diagnosis was, while I remained oblivious.
I think it is good to identify with whatever we are diagnosed. However, I’m not so sure if delving into too many MH conditions on your own, will be a hindrance or progression. I think anyone could quickly become emotionally drained and confused. Life and depression is difficult enough…
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Yeah I agree it can cause more problems than solutions. With regards to P.T.S.D. I think I might have a repressed memory from a serious accident I had as a child I find thinking about this sets off anxiety even though I don't remember the traumatic part of the accident. I think this could be something to discuss in therapy
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Where did you get the avatar? Knowing what you write about, I wonder if it was drawn by you?
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Yeah, I drew it yesterday. I was feeling impulsive so I thought I would do something constructive. Although it looks quite morbid. It actually helped me get a lot of negativity out of me. I'm going to do an opposite of this next time I'm feeling impulsive
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I thought it looked good and it figured with all the things you talk about on here; very expressive.
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Thanks, I spent hours drawing it. I've got my appointment this week and I'm quite nervous about it. I'm going to tell her I think it might be Bi-Polar as I'm having highs as well as lows. I had a few lows today. My moods have been all over the place to the point I was in a busy clothes shop today and I felt tears well in my eyes from nowhere. I had to fight them back. Then an hour later I was really chirpy and telling jokes. Then the low mood hit me out of nowhere.
The one thing I've been thinking today. My whole life I've felt this loneliness and its like a void, sometimes it's big, sometimes small but it's always there. I feel like I'm an outsider in life like someone is going to point at me and say " Your not real!" I feel like I've had something churning inside for years.
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I've just been looking at my medical centres website. The doctor I said was dismissive and off with me. Specialist subject physciatry, that's interesting
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When's your appointment Captain K?
Your GP won't diagnose bipolar, they might agree but will have to refer you. There are forms of bipolar that cycle within hours (ultradian) but the standard is that you stay in an episode for a while. Although there are also mixed which are awful.
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My appointment with my G.P. is this week. My moods can change every hour or so. I think they would probably be noticeable every four hours or so. But I can probably go through some pretty extreme moods in a day. With regards my last post. I'm hoping that my g.p. being a physciatry specialist can help me out
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Hopefully he/she will be good. Mine specialises in psychiatry & can change the level of meds, she told me she suspected I was bipolar, due to varying moods & I wasn't responding to anti depressants in the expected way but a psychiatrist had to confirm. I think this is common & due to the implications that the diagnoses brings.
How would you feel about the diagnosis if that's the way it went?
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Bi-Polar? To be honest I don't have a preferred diagnosis or anything I just want to stop feeling like life's a big struggle of an inconsistent person I.e. me. If I did get diagnosed Bi polar at least I've got something to work at changing rather than feeling lost
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I think that's a good way to look at things. Once you know what you're dealing with you can form a plan!
Yep I get fed up with feeling like everything is an uphill struggle.
Will post later just realised the time, school run!
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I just feel like I'm slowly heading for insanity anything must be more constructive than what I'm doing at the moment
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For me, not knowing was a form of torture, your mind wants to put a name to all the torment & suffering. To an extent I still get that, I try and turn it off. Many questions have been answered but not a lot of solutions found.
My support worker says I'm too hard on myself, maybe, but it's the way I deal with the depression side. I refuse to cave in, some days it's so tempting to phone in sick but I force myself out the door & shove on some high beat music in the car. When I was at my worst I wouldn't let my hubby do the school run etc, by doing it it got me up.
The highs are trickier, partly as mine are rarely euphoric ones, having to carry on as normal is hell. But I refuse to let this beat me.
Sorry, this deviates but something I had to write, mainly for me.
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CaptK... I have spent too long deducing what other people might be thinking about me. For me, that trait is probably based on paranoia. Bottom line, we don't know for sure what someone is thinking. The Doc, if he specialises in Psychiatry, probably appears blasé because he has seen it all before, nothing will shock or surprise him. I try to put my paranoia aside and press ahead with whatever it is I want to say. 99% of the time, I eventually deduce my doubts were unfounded.
For many years I periodically badgered my psychiatrist. I knew something more than depression or PTSD was wrong. Everyone kept saying it was because I had been through such a traumatic event in my life, I was bound to feel bad. But, I knew for sure, something more was at the core of my MH. It took 13 years before the Personality Disorder was diagnosed. It has been a revelation and my understanding is helping me deal with the depression a lot better. I can now ascertain what symptoms are down to the depression and what are the PD.
I am still doubting my Bipolar diagnosis. I was supposed to go back to the Psychiatrist to discuss it further. My extreme mood swings do last considerable periods of time, but I am more troubled by the rapid swings on a daily basis. My CPN assures me that the clients she sees with PD all have major issues with these rapid mood swings
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Hi Cat,
I think one of the hallmarks of BPD is extreme emotionality that can come on like a storm. I understand how severe a PD is. The one thing that gets me is all my moods swing really fast but I don't think it's the same as depression or Bi-Polar. I think it comes from excessive emotionality due to being so vulnerable to other people's opinion on me. I am going to talk about the moods with my G.P. this week, hopefully get some help with that. The thing is that I don't understand is other people with PD's report something really bad but for me I think it's all emotional abuse. My Dad left at three. My mum was either overly praising or overly critical to the point where I used to get punched and kicked. I also spent a large percentage of my childhood alone in my bedroom until I was about 13. That's when I remember gaining attention for the first time and it was like and drug to me. The the attention stopped so I started getting in with the wrong crowds, but bad attention was better than no attention.
I've got to admit I've left my wife tonight. I'm climbing the walls in my head and she was really critical of me. So I said I was leaving. I can't handle marriage anymore love is like fire it burns me inside then it just goes out and I go numb and hate everyone. Sometimes I think I just can't take life anymore. I'm not suicidal but I just can't see a future right now. I hate the lonliness and that empty feeling inside but in a way I like because when I'm like this I feel nobody can hurt me.
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Hi CK
If it helps, I get spells when I'm incredible irritated, to the point where hearing someone breath is way too much. In such moments I just want to run, run out of the house just to get away. For me, though, that would never solve the problem because I'm trying to run from myself.
For you, tonight, it's different, your wife has upset you & you can't take it anymore but is it your wife you're running from or yourself, in that you want to escape the torment?
I hope you're back with your wife & think you should write down the emotions that have lead to this to show the GP.
Xxxxxx
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Hi Buttercup,
I'm staying at my mums tonight. I'm going back in the morning to take the kids to school. I just need some time to think. I don't think she is very supportive at all. She has a lot going on but at the same time being told that she thinks that my depression is put on for attention is really insulting and makes it worse. For me I need a lot of praise and reassurance and I feel I'm getting the opposite. I don't expect it constantly but if she is prepared to judge me for everything negative I do then I could at least get a hug or something now and then.
Your posts are always really helpful. I think I'm probably running away from my feelings. It's too much, this depression I'm feeling. I feel worthless, when I see her tomorrow I'm going to tell her that I think I should move out for now at least. Then get stuck into therapy. I will write down how I'm feeling and show my G.P. no point suffering in silence.
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I'm sorry you're not having a very good time. For your wife to say the depression is for attention is a bit ridiculous, but it's probably an off-the-cuff response to her stress. I'm quite sure you will be able to sit down and talk things through. When you took her along to therapy, overall, it appears to have been a positive move. Admittedly, you need your own 1-2-1, but do you think both of you might benefit from joint therapy? The good thing about joint therapy is that allows both of you to discuss the depression constructively, without those silly off-the-cuff responses that, let's face it, we are all guilty of.
I've been celibate for 13 years because I found having relationships too difficult. I just couldn't subject someone else to my moods. I think it is very difficult for a partner to be compassionate if they are regularly facing our negativity.
I hope today is improving for you.
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Today is the hardest day I've had in ages. My moods not low though but my abandonment issue is massive. It feels like a hole in my chest or something. The thing is my wife's mum is really ill at the moment and I can't help but think this behaviour isn't fair on her. I think I should say that I will give her some space as I know what's coming next. I'm going to fall in love with her all over again and promise her the world and how I'm going to change.
The thing that's playing on my mind is Marilyn Monroe's old saying " If your not there for me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best."
I think I should say I should move out while I'm in therapy. I think this for me is rock bottom, I'm going to discuss this with my G.P. tomorrow and when she gives me the "We're all overworked and underpayed" I'm going to tell her straight that I can't face work, I'm distroying my marriage and I can't picture a future. I'm going to discuss my therapy with her too. I can't take much more of this.
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Captain K, I think you've come to the right decision, you need to tell your GP how it is. If you're anything like me it would be best to write it down, ( I chicken out )
Your wife's attitude is wrong & shows a lack of understanding of your current situation. Maybe temporarily moving out is a solution but you really need to talk it through with her & perhaps your GP.
Right now I think you need urgent help and given that you've left home due to inner tourmrnt etc if you don't get a satisfactory outcome from your GP then I would consider taking yourself off to A&E.
Please take care xxxxxx
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I am so sorry you are feeling so bad. I feel for you with your wife not being understanding. It just makes things worse when our loved ones do not support us.
I hope your appointment with your Dr goes ok. I agree with Buttercup that writing things down beforehand helps. I tend to go mute when faced with my Dr and do not say what I need to.
S x x x x
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Hi all,
I feel a lot better now. I've been doing a thing in Therapy called personality modes. The one I've been in later is called vulnerable child. The thing is I think that within this is an abandoned child with me and that's where I think my depression comes from when I'm in that mode. Now I'm in adult mode am a lot more logical/rational.
I'm going to see my Dr tomorrow and tell her exactly how I've been feeling. I find once I change modes I tend to forget the extent of the emotion I felt. It's great that I've been able to articulate how I've been feeling on these boards. It is giving me a better understanding of my moods and how they change. I think this is all down to my modes when I'm in vulnerable child I can't find solutions to any of my emotions. I think I'm dependant on the support of others so I need attention. If I don't get attention I go into the angry/impulsive child mode. If I get attention I go into happy child mode. Within me I would describe this as happy/elated
Child. This should be good to discuss with my Therapist.
When I said I can't see a future at the moment I mean I don't have work and I'm struggling with my wife. I understand she's got problems of her own but a hug once in a while and a word of encouragement would go a hell of a long way for me.
They'll probably up my dose of AD's tomorrow, hopefully that will help.
Thanks for the support guys. I'll cheer up soon and so some support to a few other people.
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We all have times when we need support and feel unable to offer support to others. That's the lovely thing about this forum there is always someone to offer words of advice and support.
I do so hope you get help and support from your Dr tomorrow.
Take care.
S x x x x
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Glad to here you're feeling better about things %^%
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Been the doctors. She was quite sympathetic and has given me a two month sick note and booked me an appointment with the physciatrist this afternoon. I didn't even have to do that much talking but what I did say I didn't beat about the bush with.
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That's really good to hear CaptK. I think, when we have a good understanding with our health professionals, it contributes to our feeling supported. Sometimes it is not always easy to communicate exactly what's going on in our head's. Booking you an appointment so soon with a Psychiatrist demonstrates her understanding. I hope you get on okay with the appointment. It's probably the best thing that can happen right now.
I don't mean to sound nosy, but you've been on my mind.... How are you getting on with the separation? Have you been able to work things out? I hope everything is going okay.
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Hope it went ok with the Psychiatrist Captain K.
Thinking of you xxx
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yeah it went well. She said she see's me at the opposite end of the spectrum to narsasistic or histrionic. She said these are over compensations for my self loathing. She said I have a lot of internalized anger. She said I'm lucky I could of quite easily killed myself. She's bringing the DSM to give me an official diagnosis in 2 weeks. For the first time in my life I'm genuinely looking at being diagnosed with a PD. I've got to admit I'm pretty scared by that now..she thinks there's a lot more trauma in my childhood than I'm letting on. I so confused by all this now, I have been really open I don't think I hate myself. I'm thinking is this some sort of reverse psychology? I'm getting six months of intensive weekly therapy. My anti depressants have been upped to 20mg of fluxatine. I feel like I've had a good day of it.
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Hi
Glad it went well, so she is going along the pd lines? Out of interest what is at the opposite end to histrionic or narsasistic?
Xxx
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Its so good to hear you are getting the help you need and deserve.
S x x x x
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That all sounds really positive. What is DSM? Being given a diagnosis does initially feel a little frightening, but it gives you something concrete to work with. I was also wondering what the opposite end of histrionic or narcissistic is? Borderline?
I'm pleased this is working out so quickly for you, most people aren't that lucky and usually wait a long time to get this far. Weekly therapy is definitely an improvement on the current monthly sessions.
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I can answer that one Cat, the DSM is the psychiatric diagnostic manual, its got all the criteria in. Although I thought we favoured ICD in this country. DSM is the American version, ICD the international.
Xxx
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I told her about my self diagnosing and she found it quite funny and I said that's my impulsive child being naughty and she found that quite funny too. I thought she said DSM but she said diagnostic manual. I think the opposite of histrionic and narsasistic is somewhere either borderline or outside of cluster B maybe avoidant. The thing that springs to mind though. I even said a few weeks ago on these pages that I see myself as comorbid between histrionic and avoidant. At times I'm shy at other I hold all the attention in the room. She said about my self loathing but I don't hate myself at all. She said I had a hatred of both my parents, all this is going to take a lot of convincing for me to except. She said narsassists are always in the mirror (yep!) have a unrealistic sense of entitlement (yep!) and lack empathy (aparently I do) although I'd say in was more apathy I.e. I've got enough to worry about, with worrying about you.
Me and my wife are back on speaking terms now. The psychiatrist said she would like 10 minutes with my wife to discuss my wife's issues. Hers are worse than mine. The psychiatrist asked me where my feeling of being inferior came from and to be honest it's probably my wife. My wife doesn't see the good in anything, can never see anything positive in life and holds me responsible for everything. I'm not blaming my wife here at all. It's not her fault what happened to her. I'm just saying I used to have a lot more self worth before I met her.
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Okay, been trying to right a post for two hours and I keep deleting them. Today is a really different day for me. The suns shining outside. My mood is relaxed, I feel like everyone cares about me again. I feel worthwhile again. I don't feel like burying my head in the sand.
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To have listened to you over the past couple of weeks and then to hear the outcome of your meeting with the Psychiatrist and your current frame of mind, all feels very positive. It’s not unusual for people with PD to feel they identify with a few symptoms from a number of clusters. I imagine a specific diagnosis is very difficult.
This is the link to the leaflet on Personality Disorder, for anyone who is curious
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvice/problems/personalitydisorders/personalitydisorder.aspx
Today I was explaining to my Care Coordinator (CPN) about how I largely identify with Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (Borderline), but I also have debilitating bouts of cluster A. There were times, over the past 13 years, when I have been in fear of losing my mind, as the full force of Paranoia, Schizoid and Schizotypal symptoms engulfs my entire life. She says this is very probable and is something I need to discuss with the Psychiatrist, whenever I get around to organising a car!
It’s good to know you’re on speaking terms with Mrs CaptK again. Fallouts only make the situation more unbearable. I think it can only help the Psychiatrist to have a meeting with her. I’m sure if there is anything she can do to help; she’ll be in a better position to guide you both in the right direction.
As always, CaptK, your insightful honesty is an inspiration. I’ve never been able to be as brave; there are always hidden issues I find too painful to address.
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Hi Catb,
You know that one of the diagnostic things for BPD is serve bouts of paranoia. I would say I suffer from this from time to time too. Thinking that people are talking about me behind my back. This has been worse lately, I could of actually sworn that people have muttered things and I've turned around and said "what?" And they said they didn't say anything.
I don't know if I've posted this yet but the psychiatrist said she would be looking for a personality that has abandonment issues, anger, impulsive and self destructive behaviour. Which leads me to this...
'BPD is manifested by a pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1) Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
2) A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is called "splitting."
3) Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
4) Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
5)Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.
6) Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7) Chronic feelings of emptiness.
8) Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
9) Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.'
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I think I need to read a bit more about PD. The positive affect from the little awareness I have gained should be enough to make me want to read more. Trouble is, reading can be such a chore. It's one of the major symptoms of many a depressive. I can sit and read a page while thinking about something entirely different. Whenever I finally manage to absorb the page, I only forget the content by the next day
I'm assuming that you are identifying with the symptoms of PD, particularly borderline? How do you feel about facing a diagnosis?
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Hi Catb,
I've edited the above post. It is the diagnostic criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder. 5 or more are needed. If you take what I've talked about with my Therapist and add it to what the psychiatrist said she could see in me.
Therapy.
Abandonment issues, weak sense of self, push/pull cycles or idealising and devaluing (splitting)
Psychiatrist.
Abandonment issues, self destructive behaviour, impulsive, depressive. Self harm was mentioned and she said I've internalized lots of anger.
As soon as I thought about it all the diagnostic criteria springs to my. Lets face it when we think of ourselves we think of the hear and now. The MH professionals are looking at everything that's gone wrong in life and look at the personality traits that cause the problems and the traits that cause me problems from what I've been talking about are above.
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Hey CaptK.... I have to admit, the little knowledge I have, coupled with your very honest posts, it came as no surprise that the Psychiatrist was in agreement that your symptoms are part of PD. At times, that is obvious to me.
Apparently, according to my CPN, most people feel relief at being diagnosed with a PD. I know that’s true for me. Finally, I can understand why I am, at times, the most impossible person.
I would think most depressives internalise anger, some people believe it is the root of most forms of depression. Until recently, I was too ashamed to admit that anger features so predominantly in my depression. It is probably what holds me together at times.
"Splitting" has always been a feature of my personality. It is something I have had difficulty understanding or controlling, and it gets progressively worse with the years. I have left some very close friends completely bamboozled by my sudden withdrawal from their company; the normally compassionate friendship vanishes. This can also relate to a Borderline PD trait, “Make friends easily, but just as easily lose themâ€. The friends, who have stood the test of time, seem to see past this behaviour and accept it as a part of who I am. I usually come round in time and continue the friendship where we left off.
Impulsive and self-destructive behaviour, if I'm honest, have consistently ruined parts of my life. Often it seems I never learn from mistakes. I am very ashamed of this trait. I will go to great lengths to make excuses for such destructive behaviour. Thankfully, as I get older, these particularly foolish actions are subsiding. Perhaps, at last, I learn from experience.
When I did the test, I scored quite high for Histrionic. I can identify most of those symptoms with my younger self - over dramatizing, self-centred, changeable emotions, suggestible, craving new and exciting experiences, worrying about appearance and even seductive.
What I was trying to explain to my Care Coordinator (CPN) is that, while I have problematic issues with many of the symptoms of borderline and some Histrionic, I am learning to live with that side of my personality. However, the major problems I have with PD are with serious bouts of Cluster A. That part of my personality I have hid from most other people. Some of those traits, the self-centred, cold, with rather odd beliefs, are embarrassing. Sometimes, it can feel like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
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Hi Catb,
I did a lot of reading about Borderlines at Christmas. People describe Borderlines as Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. I watched a film about a girl with BPD the other night and her favourite word was Ambivalent, which I think sums the personality up perfect.
ambivalent[ am-biv-uh-luhnt ]
adjective
1. having â€mixed feelings about someone or something; being unable to choose between two (usually opposing) courses of action: The whole family was ambivalent about the move to the suburbs. She is regarded as a morally ambivalent character in the play.
2. of or pertaining to the coexistence within an individual of positive and negative feelings toward the same person, object, or action, simultaneously drawing him or her in opposite directions.
That's it in a nutshell for me.
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This is a link to the BPDWorld. They provide information, advice, and support to those affected by PD
http://www.bpdworld.org/what-is-bpd/diagnostic-criteria
I particularly like this link to Mind, which is description of what it’s like to have a PD, written by a PD sufferer
http://www.mind.org.uk/blog/8225_the_burn_of_borderline_personality_disorder
What rings true for me is the extremes of absolutely everything, everything is either all good or all so very bad. There is little scope for any in between.
Something that is recurring throughout my research and listening to CaptK, is abandonment issues. It’s something I have never associated my character with, but the more I think about it, there is definitely a common thread of fearing abandonment. It was actually one of the main reasons for my last two broken relationships. I’ve always thought I had good insight, but my fear of abandonment is something that has been totally lost on me. I now wonder if it features in my preference to remain happily celibate; it’s safer.
A general instability in emotions and moods is what drives me potty. Even worse is a fluctuation in my feelings towards friends, family or loved ones. Apparently, it is important for those close to BPD sufferers to educate themselves on the illness/condition, as it will help them empathise and, I guess, cope with the extremes of behaviour.
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Wow, that mind link was something else. I thought everyone felt like that. In my world there's no such thing as constructive critism.
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Weird you should say that because I also once thought everyone thinks similar to me.
I particularly relate to the lines
A person points out your flaws, but with BPD, you already know your flaws because you obsess about them all the time
Someone tries to encourage you by pointing out how you could improve on something; with BPD, you only hear the words, "you are a failure"
Someone tells you they are too busy to see you; with BPD, it means you have become a burden on them
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I relate to most of that so much it turns my stomach in a knot, especially this...
'Somebody doesn’t ring you when they said they would, with BPD this means they’ve abandoned you.
Somebody asks what you could possibly have to be depressed about, with BPD, you now feel ashamed for feeling this way.'
When I say in my world there is no such thing as constructive criticism.
'Someone tries to encourage you by pointing out how you could improve on something; with BPD, you only hear the words, "you are a failure".' That's what I mean.
My wife said to me last night "Your going to have to stop acting like this or we will break up." But all I hear is, your a looser and I'm thinking of abandoning you. This depressed me and made me feel like it's all my fault. When all I need is a hug and to be told it'll be okay.
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I completely understand the emotional turmoil that comes from that off-the-cuff remark. As I said yesterday, I read that it is advisable for those close to people with BPD to do their own research of the condition. Developing a better understanding would help them deal with the traits they find particularly difficult. I think if we are expecting other people to understand us, we need to strive to have a better understanding of their position.
Until I learned of PD, I could not understand why my family have had difficulty dealing with me. For some reason, I couldn't quite see what exactly their problem was. Now I understand. Unfortunately, they are not interested in understanding any MH condition, but I do think MrsCK sounds like she will try to empathise. The info I've read online by Mind and the Royal College Psychiatrists are actually in booklet form. I have them in hard copy. Perhaps something like this will help MrCK understand a little better
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Hi guys.
I can relate to some of this, especially if people say they'll phone & then don't, or you text someone & they don't reply. The feeling just gets to you. I also spend most of my time feeling like I'm a failure but where I'm confused is that I always understood this to be down to low self esteem as opposed to BPD traits. But it is an abandonment I feel, like well they don't want to be my friend anymore! I get it on here sometimes if I post something & there's no reply!
I think, in a way, this is why I'm worried about my complex psychological assessment, I already feel messed up with the bipolar I don't really want anything else added! And any ideas what the complex bit is about?
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Here's how it is for me, imagine being ten, imagine going to bed on Christmas Eve, your all excited. You get up in the morning, you go into your parents bedroom, the not there, they must be downstairs so you run into the living room. The whole room is empty, nothing, no parents, no tree, no presents. The house is empty, your all alone. Why? Is it my fault, are they punishing me? Why are they being so horrible? What did I do?
For me that's how it feels when my wife leaves to go out and I'm supposed to just get on with life. But that's the emotion I have to deal with, my abandonment issue.
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BC... I feel exactly the same about texts and posts, but I recognise it as a "flaw" - or a symptom of MH - and more often than not, can see past it, and not take offence. I think this could be put down to low self-esteem or even part of depression. We all have aspects of PD traits, it is when a number of the traits, or symptoms, are causing tremendous difficulty, is when a PD might be diagnosed.
I have been referred to the "Complex needs Service" for people with PD. I also asked why the "complex" and was told that it is generally recognised that people with PD have a number of social and psychological difficulties. I would imagine it is the same for Bipolar.
I know what you mean about fearing a diagnosis of something else. But, for me, being given a specific diagnosis is something I am able to understand and relate too. Learning more about PD is helping me see past those awful mood swings; one minute life is nice and purposeful, the next its dark and hopeless and I don't care if I live or die. When I have been going down recently, I try to remember it is part of the PD mood cycle and any time soon, I will be back full of the joys of spring. It is helping immensely.
CaptK... Obviously your abandonment issues originate from a specific experience and maybe less to do with a particular abandonment PD trait. Was this what the Psychiatrist was suggesting, that you were avoiding something or denying childhood trauma's?
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I think I'm in denial about some things. She said that there has to be a lot more than just my dad leaving. She said I hate both my parents and myself, these things I'm not aware of. I really enjoyed talking to her, I've idealised her now and devalued my therapist. He sits there and stares at me and doesn't say much, like he's judging me. With her she was really good saying little things that really made me feel good "you did all that time in the Army with this abandonment problem?" "Did you know something was wrong before this?" I said it felt like something was building inside and she said "Of course. Ah." She got more out of me in half an hour than my therapist has in 5 hours.
I think it's my abandonment that has fueled my behaviour for years. Then thing that is bugging me at the moment all the soul searching I've done has gone to waste because of the appointments being cancelled.
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I think it’s perfectly acceptable to be in denial about some deeply personal and challenging issues in our lives. I’ve been through a number of therapists and each time I was able to face another part of my life that previously was too painful to address. You could say, up until now, I’ve been in denial over my abandonment issues.
IMO denial is not dishonesty. Maybe denial is a positive defence mechanism, a dam for our emotions, controlling the flow of what we can handle.
You have been fortunate to get an appointment with a Psychiatrist so quickly. Other people are not as fortunate. Not all Doc's are as attentive as yours either. Overall, I think it’s a very positive experience for you. I’m certain you will benefit from an accurate diagnosis, plus a more consistent therapy regime. I appreciate the diagnosing is daunting, but you seem insightful enough to use this as a tool to improving your situation.
Maybe your opinion of the therapist is more realistic than part of a devaluating cycle. I’ve done some counselling training and been through enough to know your Therapists behaviour is not appropriate or professional. The length of time between sessions, particularly when he reschedules, makes me wonder if he has a realistic grasp of your needs. If he’s doing this with you, I imagine there are others who feel just as P’d off. I know what you mean about wasted time from him cancelling appointments. However, in this instance, with this particular Therapist, have you really missed much?
If you don’t mind me saying, you have come a long way during the course of this past 3-4 weeks. I listen, learn, and often feel inspiration from your very personal and extremely honest journey of self-discovery. Your ability and methods of processing all this is admirable.
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Thanks,
You know this week is a completely different one for me. I feel completely different from last week. I can't help but think what's changed in the world, why is everything so different. Really it's just me.
To be fair I think I have been a little over critical of my Therapist. The first time he cancelled his daughter was ill and the second he had flu like symptoms. The time he answered the phone it rang twice and the first time he ignored it and the second he did chase the person off the phone as quick as he could. When he was talking about his kids he was giving me an example of how kids think and how much of the world the actually understand. Logically and rationally I think I shouldn't get so uptight about it, but it's these types of small things that really set me off.
I'm finding it quite hard to write today, my mind is drifting quite quickly, trying to get into the past. It's focus is on my mum.
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I have found during therapy that sometimes my "displaced anger" was directed at the Therapist. This is perfectly normal. There are also the "splitting" trait issues, which both of us understand.
My world also feels good this week.
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Hi Catb,
Good morning +-_
Okay, this has got to be it. I will argue till I'm blue in the face with this. Check out the ICD 10 description and the sub types.
ICD-10
The World Health Organization's ICD-10 lists histrionic personality disorder as:[11]
[A] personality disorder characterized by:
shallow and labile affectivity,
self-dramatization,
theatricality,
exaggerated expression of emotions,
suggestibility,
egocentricity,
self-indulgence,
lack of consideration for others,
easily hurt feelings, and
continuous seeking for appreciation, excitement and attention.
It is a requirement of ICD-10 that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria.
Millon's subtypes
Theodore Millon identified six subtypes of histrionic personality disorder.[12] Any individual histrionic may exhibit none or one of the following:
Appeasing: features of dependent personality disorder and obsessive-compulsive personality disorder
Disingenuous: features of antisocial personality disorder
Infantile: features of borderline personality disorder
Tempestuous: negativistic (passive-aggressive) features
Theatrical: overtly dramatic, romantic, and attention-seeking
Vivacious: the seductiveness of the histrionic mixed with the energy typical of hypomania
I'd like to say though. I think this is all written very negatively, personally the way I see this it is someone who is frightened of all the same things as people with BPD, just that they are trying to draw attention to themselves through fear of abandonment. Needing people to praise them and not criticize them. I think it is really similar in many ways moods swings, extreme emotions (except with people with HPD it kind of says Exaggerated expressions. I.e. the emotions aren't real.) I think the emotions are exactly the same as BPD, just that the person finds it hard to express themselves. Because as with BPD they believe their feelings are wrong. I read an a webpage written about HPD and the expert said these emotions sound like they are over-exaggerated and dramatic until you actually sit down with these people and let them open up and then you realize, they are real it's just they have a hard time being heard because people don't believe them.
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these emotions sound like they are over-exaggerated and dramatic until you actually sit down with these people and let them open up and then you realize, they are real it's just they have a hard time being heard because people don't believe them.
The above quote is so very true for my own roller-coaster ride of emotions.
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For me I'd say from therapy and reading I spend most of my time trying to gain attention or approval while at the same time trying to avoid criticism. I would also say this is linked to my fear of abandonment. I would say I have narsasistic behaviours however I would say that these are more a case of wanting to be seen as worthy by people as appossed to grandiose or superior in the eyes of people.
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Hi All,
Went in to speak to with my Therapist, he is looking at transferring me to a specialist personality service. I only spoke to him for about 20 minutes
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That's good news. A specialist will be able to help you better. Its good that your current therapist realises you need more specialist help rather than him carrying on.
S x x x x
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That sound excellent, CaptK. I also have a referral to a specialist PD service, "The Complex Needs Service" and also a user lead PD support group. I haven't heard anything yet, but I do also need to organise a car. For now, I feel I'm just getting used to the diagnosis.
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I told him I went to bits when he cancelled the last appointment and he said "I was ill?!" I said "I know but it triggered my abandonment issue." He said he thinks my abondonment issue affects my behaviour on a daily basis. He said he didn't think that C.B.T. Was useful for me, he said my emotions run to deep. He said he is going to speak to the specialist personality services and see if they will see me. Hopefully I get a diagnosis off the psychiatrist next week so then at least I know where I stand.
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IMO, the Therapist should understand the cancellation issue, whether a client has abandonment issues, or not. Most people, following TWO cancellations would feel "their space/time" was not being valued. Although, I do think he could be right about you facing abandonment issues on a daily basis. I think you already recognised this about yourself last week.
Apparently, according to the National Alliance for Mental Illness (N.A.M.I), the most useful form of psychotherapy for people with a PD is Dialectical Behavioural Therapy. You will probably find that the specialist service you're being referred too will have that as part of the Care Plan.
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My Care Coordinator sent me some information on Borderline Personality Disorder. Most of them are “fact sheetsâ€. There’s quite a bit of it, but I’ll try to share any relevant bits and pieces as I trawl through it over the coming days/weeks.
The first fact sheet is about therapy options, medications, and prognosis. It claims Borderline Personality Disorder is relatively common – about 1 in 20 or 25 individuals will live with this condition. Surely, they don’t mean in the general population. Perhaps 1 in 20 of depressives. Historically, BPD is significantly more common in females.
Apparently, the brain’s functioning, as seen in MRI screening, is different in people with BPD, suggesting there is a neurological basis.
It claims, the majority of people with BPD will experience significant and long-lasting periods of “symptom remissionâ€. However, many people will require some form of treatment even decades after their initial BPD diagnosis
Interestingly, it specifically states that the support of family and friends is of critical importance in the treatment of BPD.
The prognosis? “With the support of family and friends, involvement in ongoing treatment, and efforts to live a healthy lifestyle – regular exercise, a balanced diet and good sleeping habits – most people with BPD can expect to experience significant relief from their symptomsâ€
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Hi Catb,
D.B.T. is specifically designed for people with BPD and from what I read is the most beneficial type of psychotherapy for people with a PD. I read that 60% of the population suffer from a personality disorder but they all belong on a spectrum from minor to severe. With BPD I get the impression that it goes from someone who can get depressed after a hard time in work right the way down to people who regularly have break downs. These are known as the low functioning borderlines, these people make up 1% of the population.
The things that stand out for me was that I went the doctor when I went AWOL from the army and his wrote F.N.D. On my sick note. My mum said this is terminology for f'ing nuisance to the doctor. However, when I looked it up on the net it said Functioning neurological disorder. It's got me curious if this is how a GP would describe a PD. plus I had a head scan once when I got attacked, I wonder if anything got picked up then?
Six months ago if anyone told me I had an abandonment issue I would have laughed at them. The more I think about it the more I realise how it's affected me. Hopefully with this knowledge and some therapy I can make a lot more productive life for myself. I think my problem is I set really high standards for myself to try and prove myself worthy as a person, from now on I think my happiness is going to be my priority. At least knowing my flaws gives me a more realistic perspective on my life.
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If anything were untoward on a previous head scan, they would have told you. I think someone would need to be specifically targeting that part of the brain that’s functioning differently, to recognise a PD pattern, whatever that may be. I have no idea what FND is all about, maybe a macho clinical term for depression! =+-
There’s always great satisfaction at reaching certain “realisationsâ€. I like to call them “Enlightenmentâ€. Maybe the more we understand certain MH conditions, the more we understand ourselves. I suppose it’s up to us what we do with that newfound knowledge. I like to think I will use it as a tool for recovery, but sometimes I’m guilty of procrastination and can lack the self-discipline to work hard towards certain goals, even if I know a little blood sweat and tears will improve a situation.
Time for a little mindless telly and then bed.