Depression Forums
General => I need to vent! => Topic started by: Sadgirl4 on March 16, 2013, 01:02:14 AM
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Saw my psych today. Have been under his care for 7 years - he is a good guy. This current depression started last march. Have tried 3 different antidepressants and augmenting agents, had ECT and a spell in hospital. Worse than ever. Mental health been reorganised so can only see my psych if under the crisis team. They come every day and encourage me to do activities like going out for coffee, walks etc. if I don't "engage" with them I am told I am hostile and uncooperative, so I have really tried to work with them.
Told psych I am feeling the worst I have ever been, extremely suicidal with a plan, the means, my letters written etc. That the activities didn't do anything to distract me. That my other depressive symptoms were no better. I hoped he would change meds. He said I was at risk of a completed suicide. Then said the antidepressant WAS working because I was working with the crisis team, and that he was cutting their visits from twice to once a day. That I should just postpone my suicide until I was more engaged in life and felt better.
How can he say the drugs are working in the same breath he tells me I'm at risk? I wanted him to help because a tiny part of me (very tiny) doesn't want to die. But the rest of me is overwhelmed by the need to finish this. He is now on holiday for two weeks, and his sub, very kind, doesn't like to alter his treatment plan. I don't have 2 weeks.
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Hi Sadgirl
I'm sorry to hear you're struggling. We're all here to listen. I know there's not much I can say, but I hope you can hold on.
What would make you feel more listened to? is there any one thing that would make a difference? is there anyone else you can talk to nearby?
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Hi Musicken
Other than him doing something with meds? I guess an acknowledgement of how tough it is to live with suicidal feelings, and some real help with them. One or two of the crisis team are great, but it's a lottery who turns up. A lovely guy came two nights ago (I had met him before because he works on the ward where I was) and he said he felt I was in a deep hole and he wanted to throw me a rope to rescue me. Now I feel like my psych has cut off all chance of escape.
Can't talk to hubby - have tried. Best friend is waiting to see if her cancer has returned, so can't burden her. Most of friends have found severity and length of this episode too hard to handle and have melted away.
My protective factors are no longer protective. My psych has got it into his head I won't act for 3 weeks. He is wrong. He says I am just feeling bad because I have lost my roles through being ill so long. That I need help to re-engage. He is wrong. If I was recovering, I would have no problems with having coffee with people, or going into town. I never have before, and have 14 years of experience. I know my symptoms aren't lifting. I have been on these meds for 14 weeks. If they were going to work......
Guess its my fault for not getting him to explain how I can be getting better and still be so suicidal, for not pushing for a change in meds. Instead I just left and cried.
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Hi Sadgirl
I've been sitting here for nearly an hour trying to write a reply but I'm not finding myself very articulate this morning afternoon, so it's proving tricky.
Without knowing you, I'm conscious of accidentally saying/asking something that's been said over and over, or triggers further feelings of isolation, so if I accidentally do so, I apologise in advance.
Some of what you've said is familiar territory for me too; Although I've so far avoided crisis teams and wards, I've also had to live with intrusive suicidal feelings for much of my adult life. It's very draining and those who've never been there won't ever be able to understand.
Is there something that triggers these feelings? are they constant, or do you have periods of time where you can function without them intruding as much?
I've had bad experiences with psychs too, quite often I've gone away from a session feeling much worse. Fortunately I had one or two people I was able to turn to and speak to them on the phone, or by text. Just knowing that there was someone to say 'there there' was enough for me.
But you can escape, this forum could be a rescue rope of sorts.
Is there a reason you can't talk to your husband? I can't really talk to my wife for a number of reasons. she doesn't understand depression at all, often tells me I'm being silly when the mood makes me really low. Also, there's other issues in our marriage that are forcing me to build a wall for no other reason than to protect myself. Not being able to talk to one's spouse about important issues is such a bad thing, and it certainly doesn't help me feel any better. So I'm here instead treating this forum like an anonymous group-therapy session.
Sorry to hear that your friend is poorly, and I can understand why you don't want to burden her at the moment. So, 'burden' us instead. By that I mean you'd not be a burden, we're all here for the same reason. If there are things that you don't feel comfortable talking about in the open forum, you can always turn to private messages when you find some people here that you feel you can trust enough.
It's not your fault for not getting him to explain, by the way. it's his fault for not explaining. Your thought processes will be muddy through the depression and the medication, so don't blame yourself. Could you write it all down in a letter to your psych instead of worrying about going to pieces at you next session?
It might be worth looking at things to help you cope. For me, listening to ambient/atmospheric/drone music on headphones often works to drown out the world for a spell. Once the weather improves I hope to start taking evening walks, again with headphones on, listening to Audiobooks to help me concentrate. People in my group therapy session have mentioned 'mindfulness' as a technique and we got a handout on it but I've not had a chance to explore it, but at it's simplest it is picking some task and doing it mindfully - even something like doing the dishes; removing all distractions and concentrating on the task.
Would going for a short, five minute walk every day help? you could gradually build up the time perhaps? Sometimes the thought of having to interact with other people can be too much, so what about going for a coffee on your own? or is it the thought of being around people?
Don't give in, though. keep fighting through, even if the vision of screaming at your psych in your next meeting is the only thing keeping you going.
I hope this helps somehow. Am here if you need to vent more, as are others.
*()
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I am very concerned with your doctor's attitude towards your suicidal thoughts. It doesn't matter if he believes there is a tiny bit of you that wont go through with it. Many years ago I had a friend whose girlfriend's husband (they had been separated for some time) kept threatening to commit suicide knowing she would go running to him. Each time he hadn't taken enough tablets or whiskey to actually die. Eventually she thought she had 'wised up' to him so she didn't go running the last time he rang her. That time he succeeded and it took her a long time to forgive herself. Sorry for being morbid but if someone says they are suicidal I always take it seriously.
I know posting here isn't the same as actually speaking to someone f2f but members will take you seriously how you're feeling. For years I have been suicidal but I'm in a place now that I wont actually do anything because there is enough within me to know that I have things to live for. It also helps knowing I have friends who care about me. It can be hard though battling against suicidal thoughts though. Keep posting for support though.
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My last Psychiatrist was like this, he would never seem to take me seriously. One day, coming off meds, I called him desperately suicidal; I have never been nearer it in my entire life. I gave him a mouthful, but remember little, I told him how suicidal I was, explained all about him not listening and leaving me large amounts of time without any support. He spoke to me for less than 4 minutes and simply said, "Hang on in there, I will see you again in three weeks".
I've got to admit, it was a real crisis point for me, but it was also a turning point. I realised that I was on my own. There was absolutely nothing anyone could do or say that would make me feel better. The only person to do that was myself. I decided to stand up for myself and proceeded to kick up a fuss. I got a new Psychiatrist who does listen and an excellent CPN.
Suicide is a means to end our pain, our inner torture. As utterly desperate as many of us become, few of us really want to die. Recovery is a long road. Yes, it eventually gets to going into Town without a second thought, or meeting friends for coffee, but first recovery needs to start within, sometimes with the little small steps. By the sounds of it, you have already come a long way.
I hope you can find a way to press forward
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You aren't alone.
I complained of suicidal thoughts for many months, preogressively getting worse. One day I did take a load of pills to escape from how I was feeling. My occupational health saw me the next day and said they had no idea where that came from, they couldn't understand me taking those pills. I was like where have you been all these months?
I'm not sure what to advise you, but this forum was a great help to me in my darkest hours.
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Sometimes it does feel as if they are not listening. I used to wonder if they somehow thought I wasn't exactly with them, maybe too high on medication; like I wouldn't notice if they just pretend not to hear me from time to time. It made me wonder how many people who commit suicide do tell their MH worker prior to doing it but the worker doesn't really listen. After all, it's only another bonkers patient or client rabbiting on about their miserable life
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My psych usually does listen to me. Mental health services are undergoing reorganisation so he now only sees patients under crisis team. I think he is struggling with changes, and it feels like our relationship has changed and my voice doesn't count compared to what he is told by the crisis team.
Crisis team are talking about hospital again. I will not be safer there, and being admitted makes things worse. My psych said he wouldn't section me - have to hope he really meant it. Crisis team asked me to list my reasons for not killing myself. I could only come up with three, and two of those I found arguments against. Don't know what I am going to do - the suicidal thoughts are becoming overwhelming, and the pressure to act increasing.
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When's the next time you're due to see Psych? Maybe if you can even phone or request an appointment. I think it is one of the worst things is when we're desperately depressed but no one is taking us seriously. Of course, if you do reach that point of acting on those thoughts, you must make contact with the crisis team. Sometimes we need that extra support, especially if our own safety is at risk.
I remember feeling similar hopelessness and helplessness, not that long ago. My desperation no longer even wanted to get better. The days..weeks...months... are a blur, but I can never forget that gut wrenching despair.
There's no point me saying "things will get better", you've heard them all so often, you've probably become desensitised. I can only tell you that, for me, and many more depressives, have found a way back from their own personal hell's. There's no secret route or magic potion, only sitting it out; fighting each day to survive and, most importantly, holding onto a blind faith that things might one day feel better.
I hope you can find some support from the Depression Forum
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Sadgirl, I'm sorry to read that you're still struggling. Like Catb there's little point in me saying stuff like "it will get better". I can only hope that it does improve for you.
But you are among people who fully understand and can offer support on here.
I've not got much in the way of practical suggestions, I'm afraid. I'm only really able to offer an ear, or shoulder.
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Hi Sadgirl,
sorry to see you are having such a bad time, psycs can at times be useless in their comments, each person is an individual and if they dont fit into a predefined textbook pigeon hole many psycs often dont know what to do or say.
I often wonder if they take people serious if they are not a textbook case, if they really do understand depression or know much at all, are they just parroting lines from a textbook they read....
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Hi Stewart
Certainly feel that is the case with the crisis team. Their answer to everything is to distract myself. I am sick of telling them that distractions don't distract me - that the thoughts are too persistent. They just don't listen. Yesterday I told one of the better ones that walking the dog kept me safe because I wouldn't want to harm him, only myself. Today I was told to walk the dog "because you said it was distracting". So I explained for the umpteenth time that distractions don't work and yes I have tried. Just before she left she asked if I had any plans for the rest of the day. Perhaps You could walk the dog because you find it cathartic. Give me strength.
She also said I should accept that other people might see things I don't in terms of my improvement. It's great to know the crisis team have a better grasp of what is going on in my head than I do. That in spite of escalating suicidality thoughts and symptoms of severe depression that are not reducing (my Beckmann depression inventory scores for the last 6 weeks, earliest first, are 52, 53, 58) I am getting better. All they are basing their conclusion on is the fact I am talking to them about how I feel. But if I don't, I'll get sent back to cmht, and they are even worse. She seemed to think I was assuming they thought I was well, rather than getting better. So missed the point. Do they think I have made up my mind to stay depressed and not to recover, to deny signs of recovery? Well anyone who has been depressed knows you wouldn't wish this on your worst enemy, and would do anything not to be in this state. Don't they realise I frantically look for the smallest sign that things are changing? There is none.
More great wisdom - if there is a tiny part of you that doesn't want to die, you need to make that part bigger. If I could do that, doesn't she think I would have? They just don't get the overwhelming nature of the desire to die and be free from these cycles. Sometimes I wonder if they have ever seen anyone with severe treatment resistant depression before.
Today I packed away all my clothes, ready to be taken to charity shop when I am gone. Now, crisis team, THAT was cathartic.
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I understand about the "distraction techniques", they don't work for me either. When my mood is down, and my head on a one track suicide road, nothing will distract me. It's not that I want to be in that frame of mind, but it just doesn't cross my mind to deploy a distraction technique.
I walk my dog 2hrs every day. I do it mainly to fulfil his high energy needs, but it is also a big help to me in managing my depression. However, it still isn't a distraction from the depression because if I was down, I would only take that mood with me, ruminating as I go! These MH workers who bang on about deploying distraction, don't appear to know what they are talking about. I wonder if anyone has ever actually said, "oh, thank you, that technique really saved my life"
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Sometimes I don't think these people have any idea what its like to suffer >:(. I also would not wish depression on my worst enemy. I do not think people understand unless they have suffered themselves, but these are people trained to help. Why don't they listen!
When I am bad distraction techniques go out of the window as all I can think about is how bad I feel and nothing can stop these feelings.
Really feel for you :hug:.
S x x x x
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Shaz, I'm the same. it's like an all pervasive fog that surrounds me and I can't seem to escape its grasp.
There is nothing worse than some health professional who has never experienced depression being patronising.
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Really sorry to hear about your situation. When i 1st suffered with depression about 10 years ago saw my Dr and didn't actually get much help apart from being signed off work and given sleeping tablets (thankfully got a better Dr this time)
I guess i'm lucky in a way as well cause my wife has suffered with depression for years (longer than i've known her) so she is able to talk to me and help me. She had a suicide attempt a few years ago herself by taking every tablet she could find in the house. Luckily she was ok as i got her to the hospital and she got admitted for a day.
Hopefully things will start to go better for you very soon now
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One of the hardest things I had to come to terms with in my fight against depression and other MH conditions, is that I am very much on my own. Yes, there are MH services and places like the depression Forum, which all help. However, when in the grip of acute depression, nothing comes near to fulfilling our needs, most of that fight needs to come from within
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Yes, Catb that's true. I think most of us are on our own.
Though speaking for myself, sometimes all I crave is to be somewhere safe and warm with someone to look after me. but I know it's not going to happen.
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I am also lucky to have a very good GP and a family that are supportive. My sister also suffers and we are there for each other and know just how the other feels.
S x x x x
Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk
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Thanks guys
It really helps to be able to talk with people who actually understand. one guy on the crisis team has suffered from depression himself and he doesn't talk rubbish - but it's a lottery who turns up and I've only seen him once.
The muppet who came today also told me I should write down my negative thoughts and throw them away because it would get rid of them. My thoughts on hearing that are unrepeatable.
My husband has gone to Brussels for five days. I tried to tell him how bad I was. But he has been worn down by the cycles of depression and didn't even ask if I would be ok - just said he would see me on Friday.
I am done in.
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:hug: for you. If only throwing our thoughts away would work! Crazy. Its often hard on our loved ones, very often they don't know what to do to help. You are not alone here.
S x x x x
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These people from the Crisis Team sound like they don't have a clue.
The cycles of depression can be very difficult to deal with. It is a very lonely illness, not helped by people becoming impatient with us. I hope you manage to get through the next 5 days.....
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Somebody suggested that one to me years ago but writing down negative thoughts and throwing them away doesn't work for me.
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Hi sadgirl4, I understand the frustration with the crisis team, My experience was virtually the same, different random people, then a few who I got on a level with after I'd seen them a few times, then another random person who I'd never met before! I said about the lack of consistency with the visits and they all agreed it is a poor system and that they never know who they will be seeing from one day to the next. Plus some of them seem to have no understanding of depression, I've asked a few of them about others they go to see and they've said "well some people just lie in bed all day or on the settee because they can't be arsed to do anything". What???? If that's what they think then they really shouldn't be in the job!!
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That's shocking, Smokey, but comes as no surprise
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I think that's just how the nhs mental health services work catb, they don't!
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So - in spite of my psych saying i needed to be seen by a psych every week while he was away, the ct neglected to sort out an appointment at all last week - when i queried this on the thursday, they told me i had one arranged for the following tues so that was alright, wasn't it? What could i say? i'm not very assertive at the best of times, but when i fell like this.....
Somehow held on till the tues with the tiny hope that subbing psych would alter meds. She didn't. She was very kind, and agreed that 14 weeks was long enough to trial something, that if i felt it wasn't helping then it probably wouldn't, and that in my psych's shoes, she would make a switch, but she couldn't do that. But my psych was back next week and she would talk to him on my behalf.
I came away in total despair. What was the point of me seeing her if she couldn't do anything because she was afraid of stepping on my psych's toes, other than to let the record show i had been seen and so the mh services had done all they could? My psych is back on tues, she is going to talk to him on wed, so i wont see him till thurs at the earliest. And what if he continues to dig his heels in and not change the meds? Even if he agrees to change meds, he will want a gradual withdrawal from the parnate, (i'm on 50mg) then a 10 day washout, then 3 weeks on a starting dose of something else - which never works - then augmenting agents and higher doses etc - so at best another 3 or 4 months of feeling like this. I can't do it. I walked the dog early this morning and let him off the lead, and i just thought i am sick of living tethered to this illness. i want to be let off the lead, and i have no hope that that will happen. I do not think i will get through this weekend. The ct member who came yesterday was the only one i really have any faith in (and have only seen her once this depression), so i did tell her that. I also told her i would not use the pager when it came to it. She wanted details, and me to give her my means - but i refused. Why don't they understand that when things are this bad, you don't want to be stopped? She said someone would visit every day, hopefully one of the few I find ok, but that they are only operating a skeleton staff over the next 4 days, so the few people who actually help a bit may not be working. And honestly, even they have no suggestions for how to cope with feeling like this. Going to hospital will not help. Try as I might, I cannot find enough hope or faith to overcome the utter blackness.
My counsellor is so concerned she emailed me after my last session with the number of the samaritans, and the suggestion that i start seeing her twice a week. I am finding her helpful, and i know i should try and hold on and give the therapy a chance. But I am overwhelmed. She also said that it would be the worst thing possible for my kids if i do succeed. I know that, i agonise over it, but the darkness is relentless. I don't know what to do.
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Hi Sadgirl
Reading your post was difficult; by that I mean it is clear that you're really struggling at the moment, and your pain is evident. I really hope you can find the strength to continue to fight on a bit longer. If there's anything at all any of us can do to help you get through, we're all here for you.
I'm quite angry at the way you're being treated, but I know it's all too common. Perhaps the only way to get results is to focus on how appalling the mh services have been to you and to allow yourself to get angry with your psych/cpn/ct at the next appointment. Could you go down on Tuesday even without an appointment? demand to be seen or else you're not going away?
I know it's difficult if you're not able to be assertive, but often, allowing the anger to build up can be enough to overcome the barrier and make yourself heard.
My own experience with psychiatrists has not been a positive one. After the first session, where he talked about gradually reducing Citalopram over a few months, I got so incensed by his attitude, and the fact that the next time he could see me was four weeks away, that I took control and just stopped taking the stuff. There was no way I was waiting four weeks for a 5mg reduction, then six weeks on that dose before further action. it would have taken a year to get off it. I don't recommend this course of action at all, but it's not the first time or the last that I've stopped medication suddenly. The only one I didn't was venlafaxine, but that was due to the withdrawal effects I was having with that one. Perhaps I've been fortunate that I've not suffered withdrawal symptoms on most of the meds I've been on.
I know there's nothing much I can say to help at all, but your post has touched me, and for what it's worth, I care enough to worry if you'll be ok.
There are plenty of us here that are willing to listen, and I'll certainly continue to respond here when I can; I work odd hours - late evenings etc, so can't always get on to reply (though I can read the forum on my phone I find it too frustrating to try to type more than a few words on it).
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Way ahead of you there Musicken. I actually stopped parnate, lithium and buspirone last Friday. My thinking was that as they aren't working, it won't make a difference, and since my psych had previously told me to cut parnate dose by 50mg overnight (had a borderline psychotic episode probably due to high dose of parnate coupled with ECT), although he subsequently increased it to 50mg, that it would be ok. I have had some physical symptoms - nausea, restlessness and headaches, but psychiatric symptoms unchanged. I restarted lithium on tues because subbing psych said she was going to recommend me coming off buspirone and parnate, then starting an ssri - probably escitalopram, but staying on lithium because my history shows I usually need an augmenting agent.
Obviously I haven't told crisis team because they would whisk me off to hospital and also assume my current low is down to that. I know it isn't - it's because the last bit of hope went when psych said I had to wait till my psych came back. I did tell my counsellor - she is in a different town, and also I know she won't contact them. She made me promise to call her if things got too bad. The guy from ct who came this morning was very sweet and said he could sort out someone to be here in the middle of the night/early morning since that was the worst time. I declined - agreed to a phone call this afternoon. Person who phoned didn't seem very bothered, and just said they would phone tomorrow to arrange a visit.
I guess there must be some part of me that wants to go on, or I wouldn't have told ct guy that I didn't think I'd make it through today. But not enough to agree to someone being here - although tbh, I don't actually believe they would do that.
If I do make it, my plan is only to tell my psych what I have done if he changes my meds. I am also going to say I stopped them on tues after other psych did nothing. Either way I will have been parnate free for 10 days by his reckoning, so he should be able to start new AD straight away. Even so it will be weeks before that kicks in, if it does (4th ad in a year), which may as well be eternity. And still no-one can offer me any coping strategies. It feels like they think the longer I go without acting, the lesser the risk. A big assumption to make with someone's life at stake.
The only thing I can think of to do is to cover the wall in my study with post-it's and photos of anything good in my life, and keep looking at it. But it feels inevitable that at some point tonight I will take the pills.
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:(
Please try to hang in there . The post-it note idea sounds like a good idea.
I'm at work so can't really reply much at the moment. Will be thinking about you and hoping you're ok. Best wishes.
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Sad girl... there is nothing worse than feeling we are not being listened too, but the people on this Forum are listening. I know it's not the same as having 1-2-1 friendship, but it is the next best thing.
I know you've been through hell, I've been following your posts. It's not for me to say anything will get any better, but it did for me, and I was "a hopeless case". I cannot tell you how I came through my worst moments, it's all a blur. I think I sort of resigned myself to the fact that life was pretty Sh** right now....but maybe tomorrow, or next week, might be better. Of course, for sometime, it never did get any better. Maybe it is my 'what if?' mentality, but that 'what if it did get better' eventually came true
Many of us long to be dead but few of us really want to die. For me, suicide came to signify an option if things didn't get any better. Somehow, it made me feel better that I had final control over that get out clause. It's very clichéd to say, "one day at a time" but it is a very powerful tool.
I hope you can get yourself through this weekend
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Trying to catch up .... it's so hard at times to get a point across. Personally I gave up a long time ago trying to get the help I need. A little bit of me fears being sectioned as I will be seen as a basket case or thought off as over dramatic. It's easier for me to muddle through and know that if I want support I would rather come here.
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Well it's Tuesday morning and I'm still here. A few good things happened over the weekend. The crisis team did manage to only send the good guys to visit me, the ones who listen, and the new care plan seems to be working. My husband's family came on Monday and his mum said some lovely things to me.
BUT - at 3am on Sat morning, everything looked so bleak. My board of positives just didn't do it. And I was so tired of being consumed by the darkness with no help to fight it. So I took a lot of pills and alcohol. I was about 3/4 of the way through my stash when something made me pause. Not sure what - my wavering, weak faith would say it was God - but the feeling of inevitability I have had about about my death for the past month or so was replaced by the feeling that I had to make a choice. (The reason I say it was God is because the only other time I have had this exact same feeling was just before I became a Christian). Whatever- I decided not to take any more, and see what happened. I figured if I didn't die, and things didn't improve, I could always try again another time. That I would do what I have been doing - try and keep going till a certain event - visit to counsellor/psych/seeing family etc.
So far very few symptoms considering what I took. Upset stomach, headache, dry mouth, no sleep for 48 hours. i know symptoms can be delayed though. Crisis team visitor on Sat noticed dry mouth but I made some excuse.
Today I feel so low again. This happens every time I reach my "event" and it passes. It's like being on a roller coaster. You haul yourself up to the date, with every effort you can make, then when it's gone, you plummet. Seeing counsellor on Wed.
So my dilemma. I told crisis team not to visit yesterday because it was the lovely guy who has had depression himself. He and I have talked about my faith and he (and his mother's church) are praying for me. And he is working today. I do find him easy to talk to - he has been suicidal himself so he knows how it is. i know I ought to tell him what I have done. No-one knows - except you guys. But I see that as a one way ticket to hospital. Also I don't want my psych, who is back today, thinking I was trying to blackmail him into changing meds. That wasn't anything to do with it. And it wasn't down to my coming off my meds. You all know how I have been feeling, and tbh last weekend had been the "right time" in my mind for several weeks. What should I do?
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I am thankful that you had the courage to be honest here. We are Christians as well and it's my faith that's helped my through the really dark times. For many years I turned my back on my faith due to things that happened in 1981 / 1982 as I blamed everybody including myself and God. I was self harming and was attempting suicide as I believed it was the only way to end the emotional pain I was going through. I came back to my faith in 2004 due to circumstances and it has helped as I have learned to forgive those who hurt me. I also knew it wasn't God's fault and I shouldn't blame myself for what others had done to me. It's good that you can talk to this one guy though as trust is so important. I will get you on our church list as well. Our ministers are great as we don't have to give any details, it is enough for them just knowing that someone is low or depressed.
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So I agonised over what to say, but in the end thought I had to be honest, so when he asked me how the weekend was I told him awful. He asked why, I said I couldn't tell him because of what he would do. And this is why I like him so well. He said that he probably wouldn't do what I was thinking of, and he didn't think the team would either, because they all know that hospital is detrimental and all that would happen would be that I would get even lower and either do something there or wait till I was discharged. So I told him. He asked what effects it had had and if I had been sick, and whether I needed to be checked out. I expressed my fear about people misinterpretating my motive, and he said no-one would think that, that they knew how desperate I was feeling. He said he was glad my faith had helped me, and hoped that would continue to do so. He arranged he would make an appointment with my psych and let me know when it was later today, which he has done. So my psych now knows what has happened. Just have to hope he meant what he said about not sectioning me.
I am seeing him on thurs. I have decided that if he agrees to change my meds I am going to be totally upfront with him and tell him the real date I stopped my meds. I never lie to him - not going to start now. I know he will think it's because I came off the meds that Saturday morning happened, but in fact I decided on this weekend some weeks ago and my suicidal thoughts haven't altered in intensity - they have been this strong for months.
Really struggling again though. Trying to quieten the "what ifs" that are running through my mind. What if he does decide to section me? What if he doesn't change the meds? What if he does and the escitalopram doesn't work? I know "each day has enough worries of its own", but my head is so out of control these days. And maybe it was my faith that saved me (more likely all those prayers, plus people at my church who are praying) but it's so weak and wavering. And I am so tired. Can't do any more of those roller coasters. And thurs is a long time away when you're not sleeping.
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Focus on the fact that your appointment is on Thursday. If he thought you was a real danger to yourself he would have arranged something much quicker. Talking is halve the battle and you have been honest, well done for having the courage.
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In my experience, Mental health will do everything but section someone. It's not generally a very helpful environment. The fact you are being honest with him, also builds their trust in you. I think, if you want to sort out the meds, be honest about when you stopped.
Having a faith certainly does bring strength and comfort during our worst moments. It sounds like you have some nice supportive people around you. I hope everything starts to work out for you
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So - psych very unhappy about overdose. Accused me of not telling ct what i had taken. (this was inaccurate - they didnt ask me. think he had misunderstoid something one of them said, but i didnt argue the toss). Said he would change meds but I would need to reduce gradually. So I told him I didn't need to because I had stopped them. He hit the roof. Said people were putting a lot of effort into my care and I repaid that with dishonesty. I told him I was afraid of being hospitalised. He said he had already told me that he didn't think that would be helpful. Nice ct lady was there too - she said my sleep or lack of it was a big issue, but he didn't do anything about that. I said I just wanted to get rid of the suicidal thoughts and he told me I needed to fill my time. Well at least he didn't tell me to distract myself! I said it didn't work, that the noise is always there. He just didn't get it. He said I have been ill for so long and my support networks aren't really there any more, so I need help to get back into my life. Doesn't he think I want that? But the thoughts are too intense, too persistent.
I did feel listened to, but despair at my inability to explain why distraction doesn't work. I know I should hold onto the meds change (20mg escitalopram starting next week). But it will be weeks before it starts to work, and I am so unstable - to the point where I am actually considering hospital because I fear for my safety. But I won't be able to see my counsellor if I do, because she's 45 mins away, and I won't be able to drive even if they let me out. And in the long term she might be the answer.
My counsellor suggested valerian for sleep - but just like everything else it didn't work.
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Oh Sad Girl,
I am so sorry, and I know just what you mean about the suicidal noises, sometimes they are so strong its impossible to hide from them.
I was given Quetiapine to help with the sleep issues; just 25 - 50 mg - it took weeks to start working but it does now and sleeping does have a huge impact. Sadly, I can't think of any miracle solutions, but I am thinking of you for what it's worth, and if I do have any ideas I will let you know xx
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Hi sadgirl... :bye: That sounds a very difficult meeting but I think it's good you had the courage to be honest. Yes, of course, he might have been annoyed but, deep down, he will also be glad of your honesty. Now you can start afresh with a new medication next week. Sleeping is so important to mental health and it is a pity the Psych didn't give you anything. Do you see him next week? Maybe you could persuade him to prescribe you something short term. What about your GP?
I'm afraid, whenever I am going through a bad depression, I cannot distract myself, I can barely move or muster any energy for anything. These Mental health workers are full of big ideas at times :(
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So feel for you. I can not keep myself busy when I am bad, its all I can do to get out of bed :(. That seems a very silly thing to say, especially from a phych Dr. Also expecting you to cope until new meds kick in seems wrong. I was given Clonazepam to help me through my med change over. It really helped.
S x x x x
Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk
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Thanks everyone for being here.
I have tried 6 different sleeping tablets over the last 6 months. None of them give me more than a couple of hours sleep, and leave me feeling physically awful, so I just don't bother now.
Saw my counsellor today. She is being very supportive, even said I could call her anytime if things were really bad. I just feel like I can't make much progress with her because my head is full of all the suicidal thoughts, to the exclusion of anything else. We had a long chat about hospital. There are so many valid reasons for not going, but one huge reason for - that it is the only place someone can be with me 24 hours, and right now that feels like the only thing that will keep me physically safe. Yes I know I could wake hubby up, or make sure I am in the same room as someone else, but I don't do this because too much of me doesn't want to be safe. My counsellor thinks I am disengaged from the world, and part of that 24 hour watch thing is about trying to get a grip on reality - also my need for hugs. It is true I have been feeling for the longest time that I am on the edge of life watching it go on without me, so much so I think no-one will notice if I cease to be. Does that make any sense? She wants to meet my hubby, which he is happy to do- she thinks she can offer him some ideas on how to support me. She also said she would talk to my psych.
Lovely Irish guy from ct came this evening. I just spent the entire time in floods of tears. Guess counsellor did phone psych because Irish knew I was thinking about hospital. He said it wasn't a good idea, but had no answer for how I was supposed to hang on, beyond "use the pager". What's the point? So they can tell me to distract myself? I didn't wake anyone last Saturday, I didn't use the pager. You just don't when the feelings get too much. Surely they realise if I am contemplating hospital I am at my wits end? I have easy access to some powerful drugs. I cannot see any reason to go on.
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Hi
I would guess that if the crisis team & Pdoc don't think hospital is a good idea then it would be difficult for you to get yourself admitted. I know the aim in my area is to keep people out & deal with in the community.
I've been where you are, just desperate & the feeling of desperation is terrifying & awful. It's almost impossible to distract yourself. Sometimes I get my hubby to take me out or something, just to get out the house. I used to keep everything to myself but I've been really good recently & have told my hubby & CPN.
Xxxx
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So am now employing the only coping strategy that helps at all - alcohol. Unsurprisingly frowned on by ct and psych, but they are offering me nothing else. They phoned this morning to say they would visit this afternoon and was I ok? I said no. Was I on my own? Yes. Would I be ok? Who knows. Well you can use the pager. Right - like that will make any difference at all. She asked if I was still thinking about hospital. It doesn't matter - counsellor told me she had spoken to psych and he was against the idea, so they won't admit me. And I am so overcome now I don't want to be safe. Going to be on my own for most of today and tomorrow. And anyway I wasn't alone last w/e and it didn't stop me. My attempts to end it are always begun when sober, not impulsive but planned in advance. My fingertip grip on life is loosening. And there is no-one to grab me.
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:hug:
The crisis team here are very good so whilst it is a last resort to admit somebody they will do that if they feel it is necessary. The last time I was under them they were ringing several times a day on my bad days when they weren't visiting which did help me a great deal. It kept me out of hospital and for that I was thankful as I was resistent to being admitted.
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Looking back at my life I used to use alcohol to cope as well I think. At my worst (drinking) I was getting through 3 litres of whisky a week as well as however many cans of beer. I realised that was way to much and eased off, but its only recently I've as good as stopped ( 2 pints this year I think I've had). Being on tablets has helped me say to myself i'm gonna stop completely now, but know I prob won't as will no doubt have an odd drink here and there. Although today I am finding I'd like a few beers. But I know from the past at a really low point I knew I was gonna drink till whatever happened and wrote what was basically a suicide note, not cause planned to do anything but knew was gonna get so drunk didn't know what I'd do.
Hopefully you'll be ok there, just thought I'd share with you my alcohol story, never know.... It may help in some way
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Sadgirl... you are going through a very bad time at the moment. Usually CMHt are reluctant to hospitalise Although, it doesn't feel right that you are left so much on your own. I hope the CT and Psych did visit and had some better ideas.
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Oh they visited - they told me to go for a walk in the sunshine and to think about my children. Don't they think I do that? I know what effect my death will have but I guess I am just too selfish, too wrapped up in my own pain to care. Predictably unhappy at my self harm and drinking. I told them I had a plan, that I was on my own for most of the day, they just said use the pager or phone the Samaritans. Ok - I know, what else can they say? I don't know what I want them to do. But what they are doing isn't helping my crisis. They know I won't use the pager. Shouldn't they be in contact more often - a phone call later in the day at least? How can you just leave someone who is very ill for 24 hours with no contact? Have decided against hospital anyway - will to die too strong now. My decision to try again is made sober - it always is. I just use alcohol to wash down the tablets, or to try and get some elusive sleep. Managed a few hours last night. But nothing looks any better this morning, and will be alone from midday.
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Hope you're feeling a little bit better there, wish I could say something to help but I can't. I know how bad things can get sometimes. If there's nothing else just post on here this afternoon and hopefully we'll be able to all help in some way
Jamie
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Crisis team have issued ultimatum - be admitted or be sectioned. Hospital will keep me physically safe, but will make mental state even worse. Won't be able to see counsellor. But no choice. When hubby gets home I am going in. God help me.
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Will be thinking of you. Hope it will help you in the long run if not straight away
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The fact is, when someone is as depressed as you've been lately, there is nothing CT, or anyone, can say that will make anyone feel any better. However, rather than recognise this, I'm sure these MH workers are lost for words and then end up saying silly things like "go for a walk" or "try distracting yourself". Perhaps, for a while, it might be better for you to have constant supervision in hospital. I hope everything starts to improve very soon. Keep in touch, if you are able too.
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Thinking of you :hug:.
S x x x x
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Hospital a disaster. Did actually get to see a psychologist who told me she wouldn't treat me because I was seeing a counsellor. My counsellor had told me a psychologist could do some stuff she couldn't to complement her work. The psychologist drew up a meaningless, vague care plan. I saw the psych next day and asked to be discharged. I told her since she had sorted my insomnia, the most risky time of day didn't happen, and that the new medication wasn't as toxic in overdose anyway. I told her it was a risk, but hospital wasn't helping. And then I told her I would not see my old psych any more. He was not honest with me and I no longer trust him.
The night before I was discharged I told the night staff I was concerned about the level of support I was being offered - a new, unidentified psych, with no appointment to see him, and that was it. Yet I was no less suicidal than when I was admitted, when the crisis team were coming every day. She said she would pass it on to the day staff. The next day someone told me the name of my psych, but nothing else. No-one talked to me about what I should do if I felt bad. When my son came to pick me up, they gave me a week's worth of drugs and let me out.
I am home. I am suicidal. I have an appointment to see new psych tomorrow. My friend is treated by him and says he is good. I just have no confidence in psychs any more. All they offer me are pills that don't treat the root cause. And I cannot stand up for myself, nor ask someone else to do it on my behalf.
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Oh Sad girl, this is awful, to go through all that and be no further forward. I do so hope the new phych Dr does more to help you through this terrible time. Big caring :hug: for you.
S x x x x
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Sadgirl ~ I'm sorry you're not getting further with the help you need :hug:
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Well on the plus side new psych doesn't want to reach for his prescription pad. In fact he is suggesting stopping everything because it doesn't appear to help and he says I have tried pretty much everything medication wise. But, left for 3 weeks with no support. He assessed my suicide risk as low because I don't have a well formulated plan. My counsellor is very concerned - she knows that's not right. My sleep is haywire again, and I dream violent dreams of being out of control.
Not really a vent, but I wrote this:
They proffer help, but know not how
Nor do I - save this:
Eviscerate my skin
Release the formless monster
Who devours my very heart
Decimates my songless spirit.
Silence Death's promises of peace
Of being the nothingness I feel.
Their murmuring voices whisper
"Be strong, hold on."
In battle old Moses lost strength
But I am no Moses
And I have no Joshua.
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I have been reading through and wish I could give you words of wisdom,
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Saw psych. My counsellor offered to come to give me support. He told her she needed to think about her boundaries, and that seeing me twice a week is rather unusual, isn't it?
He accused me of lying about taking overdoses - his evidence for this was that my notes said I had refused a blood test. Well that is a blatant lie. Makes me wonder how much else of what my notes say is fiction. He then said I was very angry, and did I want to get better, did I like being depressed? That i would probably accuse him of lying at some point and sack him. He said that i couldnt day my life had no meaning because i walk the dog and take my daughter to school. And after 6 weeks out of hospital, with no improvement in my condition, he is not going to see me for another 8 weeks, but has given me no means of support or anyone to contact during that time. All he did was tell me to reduce my lithium.
What can I do? If I stop seeing him, that is it for psychiatric care for me. It will go in my notes that I am hostile and untruthful, and everyone will judge me before I say a word. And he will assume that I stopped seeing him because i dont like being challenged. another untruth. my counsellor challenges me but she doesnt ask stupid questions or make staggering judgments. If i see him again I have to suppress my annoyance and pretend to be happy with my treatment. I told him I was angry at the way the mental health services have let me down. He didn't like that.
Someone tell me there are psychs out there who really understand what a hell severe depression is. Who try and help, who offer practical support. Coz they don't exist in Suffolk.
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The treatment you are receiving from him is disgusting. I expect that from social services as forced adoption is on the rise in the UK. I always say one abused child is one too many but too often the wrong kids are being taken into care and the ones who should slip the net.
I really don't understand why he thinks his attitude is acceptable. You're right though it probably will be held against you if you stand your ground. This is a good example of what's wrong with the mental health system.
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I am lost. There is no solid ground to stand on, nothing to cling to. I try to hold onto the time I became a Christian. I knew I had to make a choice, to step into the unknown. I later found out that my sister, at the same moment, had a picture of Jesus standing in front of me. That happened, I had a faith. The echo of that must be enough for God to tug at my soul enough that I go to church, and have for the past 6 weeks, feeling a hypocrite, but trying to be obedient and answer the call.
But when I am there, nothing. We are encouraged to "come as we are". Evidently that is not enough. God is silent. He offers no comfort, no answer to the wailing of my heart which is all the prayer I have, not even condemnation. Just silence. I could not go forward for prayer. Is that why God ignores me, because I didn't take a step of faith? Am I cast aside because I do not learn from my depressive episodes, my faith weakening instead of growing stronger? Because I don't push through and claim the victory? I sat and cried. The senior pastor sat with me, but didn't know what to say.
I try, try so hard to do the things I used to do that brought me meaning. No-one bar my counsellor accepts what an effort that is, or that those activities do not make me feel better. How can they, when I am no longer alive in any real sense? It is not a question of liking being depressed as my psychiatrist accused me of.
What am I to do?
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hi
i am sending you a pm
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Hope you don't mind me asking ~ what church are you going to?
I grew up believing in God and I never questioned His existence. My parents encouraged my desire to go to church although I don't remember the first one which was a Catholic Sunday school. My mum was Chapel (protestant) and my dad was raised a Methodist although he is an astheist. From there I have also attended a Methodist church and Anglican. Sometimes I would go to a Catholic Church because a friend was Catholic and a Baptist church when friends were baptised.
When I was 19 I turned my back on my faith due to circumstances as I couldn't understand why God let terrible things happen to me. I started going back to church after I got married as my husband wanted too but not regularly until 2005. It was then that I came back to my faith and we were going to a Pentecostal church at the time. I was resistant until one evening after church I read a message from a friend who took a leap of faith by what she wrote and quoted from the bible. She didn't know what my beliefs were, if any. I had been going through a tough time with depression yet her message got through to me and I opened up my heart again. For me I knew it was the rime to start forgiving those who had hurt me (family) and to forgive myself. I got baptised in November 2005 which has impacted on my life in a positive way.
We are know members of our local Methodist church where we get support. I don't know how much it will help you to read this. I do know God loves you and it's being depressed that is making you feel like this. It take time for you to feel different but being with Christians even if it is just once a week will help as they can give support even if they don't understand what you're going through. Sometimes just talking and a person listening can make you feel better. If anybody offers to pray for you let them.