BPD

[Catbrian]

Hey CaptK

I know a lot about internalising, I spent 6-7 years completely locked in it.  It’s interesting that recovery through “Mindfulness” is all about living in the moment, not thinking too much about the past or the future.  I know little about the practice but intend looking into it more as my next venture

I think we reach a large part of our diagnosis by ourselves.  In my experience, Psychiatrists are not very keen on throwing diagnosis about.  I had to push for a review of mine and even took it as far as changing the psychiatrist.  I had researched many psychiatric illness’s, insistent there was something more than depression and PTSD.  As soon as I read the info on PD, I knew I had found it, albeit slightly nudged by the Mental Health Team. 

The symptoms that I have been identifying with are not merely symptoms but they have materialised as major issues at various points throughout my lifetime.  For me, it’s immaterial what cluster.

Before I had the diagnoses, I had never heard of Personality Disorder.  The term personality “disorder” might conjure up all sorts of scenarios for the onlooker.  It’s all a bit weird because I am feeling so comfortable with it; I haven’t really given much thought to what other people might think.  I do wonder if other people suffering depression might also identify with some of the symptoms of PD.  It is always up for discussion….

This is the link to the Royal College of Psychiatrists leaflet on Personality Disorder
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvice/problems/personalitydisorders/personalitydisorder.aspx

If I were to attempt to explain what living with PD is like for me, then I would probably say it is similar to living inside a very thick glass goldfish bowl.  Everything around ME looks clear and straightforward, but to those looking in, the reflection of the thick glass makes everything look distorted, and the things I say sound slightly muffled.  It also makes my view of their world look quite bizarre at times.  People can look inside my world, but are never able to come inside and experience it first-hand.  I may stand shoulder to shoulder with many people, but there is always thick transparent glass standing between us; a barrier that sets us apart and makes me similar but entirely different to everyone else.

I must say, I have found this to be largely untrue with writing to people online.  Having the safety barrier of the technology, I am safe to open up and let people inside.  They still cannot see, hear, or experience first-hand, but at least I can express my view clearly through words

Interesting what you say about therapy.  Any time I have gone through therapy, most of the soul-searching happens between sessions.  Sometimes we need that additional outlet to be able to off load.  Writing has always been a hobby.  It is also a gift to be able to express our deepest thoughts through words with other like-minded people. 

[captainkeefy]

I tend to do all my soul searching between Therapy sessions and then off load at my Therapist and the guy can't get a word in edgeways. The session with my Wife was different though, my Therapist kept trying to pull me into the talking and I just sat back and let my Wife talk to him. I just didn't feel the need to pipe up which is what I was expecting to do but then I just let them talk. The strange thing is though I felt like they where talking about someone else and not me, everything that my Therapist talked about seemed spot on but it was strange to listen to him explaining things to my Wife. Probably because up until recently I thought everyone had the same emotions as me and then when he started explaining them I thought it made me sound strange. He asked my Wife if I ever acted like a little boy and she said "Erm, yeah. He goes really quiet on me sometimes and stares at the floor and I know he's changed and gone into one of his moods. Then he blanks me for ages." He asked me what sets this off and I said "I can be sat in the room having a brew and my Wife can walk in stressed and it just sets me off." He asked what things she says when she's stressed and I replied "She doesn't have to say anything, I read her like a book. It could be her posture, facial expression or she could huff and I'm expecting criticism." He looked amazed at me, I told him I read everyone like that. I can read peoples moods before they do. I gave him an example of a chat I'd had with him and I asked him a question and he had said yes but his facial expression said no and when I told him this he laughed.

It's funny you say we reach a large part of a diagnosis by ourselves. I've been listening to my Wife talk lately and The things she has mentioned have stood out for me as traits "Your constantly after attention." "Your always hunting for praise." "Your very manipulative." "Your a drama queen." "One minute you tell me your depressed and then next minute your dancing round the house elated, I don't believe you feel like that." To me these are all traits of HPD and when I read through the list of criteria I spot most of them in myself, which makes me wonder. I have also taken this test http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html and I always score between 86% and 90% Histrionic. I also score about 70% avoidant too. I've always felt there was something really wrong with me and I'd love to know what it is because then at least I'd know why I feel so different to most people.

[Buttercup]

Hope you don't mind me joining in.

I've been following this thread from the sidelines & found it very interesting. The thing that confuses me is that there is so much crossover between PD & bipolar. Ultimately bipolar fits for me as my episodes last days/weeks not moments.

Something I read suggested that bipolar mood episodes were rarely triggered by environmental factors whereas PD ones were, this confuses me mainly as my psychiatrist has explained that stress is a huge trigger for me.

Having read the link you posted Catb; cluster c has my constant feelings, the ones that are constantly there down to an absolute tee. So where does this leave me?

I also do an awful lot of soul searching & have to admit I font always find it helpful. The less I think about things the better I feel.

[captainkeefy]

Hi Buttercup,

Feel free to join in! For me the factor that sets me off is what comes or doesn't come out of people's mouths. If people are there and I talk to them and they don't reply I kind of feel invisible which makes me uncomfortable. If I get criticised I feel my feelings of self worth drop and my mood drops with it and leads to depression. If I do something for someone I can stand there for ages wondering if I've done it good enough, when they tell me I've done a great job then I feel elated and my feeling of self worth go through the roof. My feeling of self worth are controlled by how people see me as appossed to how I see myself. This controls my moods in the process.

The soul searching does make me feel bad. The things I've found lately is a deep feeling of shame within myself and then after that one I found an abandonment issue. This abandonment issue fuels all my strongest emotions. Then I started soul searching how I acted when it was triggered and this made me feel really down for weeks. To the point of considering self harming, I refrained from this and am feeling much better about it now.

[Buttercup]

Hi Buttercup,

Feel free to join in! For me the factor that sets me off is what comes or doesn't come out of people's mouths. If people are there and I talk to them and they don't reply I kind of feel invisible which makes me uncomfortable. If I get criticised I feel my feelings of self worth drop and my mood drops with it and leads to depression. If I do something for someone I can stand there for ages wondering if I've done it good enough, when they tell me I've done a great job then I feel elated and my feeling of self worth go through the roof. My feeling of self worth are controlled by how people see me as appossed to how I see myself.

This is the bit I strongly relate to. I tend not to socialise to avoid not being talked to and constantly seek reassurance for decisions I make. I also wonder whether I've done a good enough job etc. these feelings tend to always be kicking around in the background. How much they bother me depends on how depressed I am. I'm not sure they start my mood but I am a little confused here; a touch of what came first.

To an extent these feelings are also there when I'm high but my optimism nulls the effect.

[Catbrian]

Hi CaptK… once again, you have me thinking..

Hi BC… you and anyone else is very welcome to join in.  You are right about the moods of BP and PD. 

I think many who are experiencing a mental illness will be able to identify with some of the symptoms of PD. 

CaptK..  I think it’s excellent that your therapist shows an accurate understanding of your issues.  Taking your wife can only be positive; she also sounds as if she has a good ‘take’ on things.  It sounds like you are taking full advantage of the sessions.  Doing the additional “home-work” can only have a positive outcome.

“Shame and abandonment” seem to be key issues for you.  You are very honest about how they affect you on a daily basis.  Do you know where they originate?  Are you near any kind of diagnosis? 

I have always felt my emotional and thought processes are different to other people.  Many of my traits, that have been a problem for me, and a few other people, turn out to be symptoms of PD.  I’ve already said what a revelation this has been.  Suddenly I understand why life is such a challenge.  It may not help my relationships with other people, but I’m sure the new-found understanding will help me deal with things a little better

[captainkeefy]

Hi Catb,

My abandonment issue is something I discussed with my Therapist. We discussed that It came from when I was about 3 and my Father left. He had left before and returned so I did something for his breakfast, he shouted at me for making a mess. This is the last time I seem him. My Therapist told me that my mind was too young to see this logically and I decided it was my fault he left forever after shouting at me (rejecting my special breakfast.) so. This is the first time I felt abandonment. I wonder if the shame comes from then as well.

My research is something that my Therapist has told me I should stop. But the way I can't help but see it is I feel something is really wrong with me. Imagine going to your G.P. with a lump and then being sent to a specialist who when you ask is it bad, they say "It's a lump, we are going to talk about it.." And then your family are basically saying "It's just a lump, I'm not bothered." "Oh yeah but keep going to see the specialist, you need it." If he gave me a diagnosis then at least I'd be able to see I have something I need to work on. Plus I'm the most impulsive person I know, by far. I can't help myself it just kicks in and I can't control myself.

I know I have felt distress and despair for years. My mind also has this crazy way of wiping my emotions from the day before. I can never really remember how I was feeling after I've felt it unless I articulate the emotions as I feel them. My Wife said I was a nasty piece of work in my last job. My therapist asked what was going on and I couldn't answer. Today I read a thing called 'Displacement' when you get frustrated and bottle it up and then dump the frustration on someone else, I'm going to ask if this is what I was doing.

I think learning about these traits gives us something we can work on. I've tried to knock a lot of what I do on the head. However I can't stop the pull push cycles no matter what. My wife was telling me today that I need to stop this, this is something I have absolutely no control of unless I pushed her away and left her away. I read somewhere that most people who suffer repeat bouts of depression tend to have a PD.

[Got]

I do not have borderline personality disorder, but I do have traits, and also, admittedly, some narcissistic traits as well. Fortunately, for reasons I do not understand, I seem to be self-aware, and so I have understood my borderline traits and why I have them for about 8 years, but I did not realise they were borderline traits until last year. I am lucky that I do not have a full blown borderline personality, I can honestly say manipulation doesn't form part of my social repertoire, and I don't fear rejection.

I think feeling as though you are constantly to blame is a common emotion in this circumstance, and I think also perhaps a concurrent acknowledgement that it isn't, combined with a sense of rage at the person persons who have made you feel like this.

I don't hold anger against people anymore, I've not allowed it to consume me. However, something I find difficult to reconcile in my mind is my incredible dominance, whilst simultaneously having great compassion for others.

I have noticed traits in a number of people I my family, two of which where key figures in my up bringing. One of these people was a very controlling individual, yet very loving.  

[captainkeefy]

Hi Stevie,

I have been described as very manipulative. Honestly I struggle to see it except my Wife points out I'm a flirt with other women. I don't have any intention of anything of a sexual nature, it's just a way of drawing attention to myself. I know seduction is a form of manipulation I'm guessing this is a trait. In work I tend to work especially hard to draw attention to myself as I feel deserving of special treatment, I think this could be a trait also. With the employees I Work with I tend to waffle about myself and lie compulsively so they think I'm someone I'm not and I tend to think whoever I'm with is my 'best friend.' However I never want to listen to what they have to say. I get frustrated when they won't let me talk because they're talking, again I think these are more traits. I can never hold a job down as I get very bored with routine and it becomes unbearable. So I leave, I've had about 15 jobs in as many years. I don't like authority figures at all, they intimidate me to the point where for some reason I get tears in my eyes when they talk to me and I have to fight them back and I'm not talking being reprimanded, I'm talking a how's you day been type conversation. These are all things that seem like traits to me. Also my wife says I'm very dramatic, I go hot and cold all the time and she says she's weary of the next thing I'll do for attention.

I'm interested in what you said about seeing traits in your family, I do too. Obviously my Dad left and my Mum was very loving and very agressive and controlling. I was scared of voicing an opinion and I had no confidence at times. These behaviours or traits have continued through my adult life. Trying to draw attention to myself through fear of rejection.

[Catbrian]

Hi, guys… +-_  just catching up with this thread and thought I would write a cat-essay…oops, sorry if I go on a bit...

IMO, most of our problems originate from childhood.  My early memories are from approximately 3yrs old; they are not good.  I have been through a lot of therapy, but still cannot work through some of the more painful issues.  Subsequently, the relationship with my parents has suffered throughout this lifetime.  How can you forgive someone who has no remorse?

I heard someone say on the Forum, “Letting go is letting be”.  If this is true, then I have let go of most my childhood issues.  They were once uppermost in my mind, haunting.  If I were to go through therapy today, childhood would not be at the forefront of my mind. 

CaptK, I totally understand your abandonment issue and agree it probably does come from the last time you seen your father.  I wonder why you feel shame from that time.

I understand why the Therapist might feel cautious about you researching a diagnosis, but it doesn’t feel right to tell you to stop.  How can anyone recover if they do not know what they’re recovering from?

I understand the “displacement” of anger.  This is an issue I became aware of a few years ago.  That trait still exists today, but it’s mostly under control.  What is never under control is blowing hot and cold; CaptK calls it “push and pull cycles”.  That emotion can completely engulf every inch of my being.  I absolutely hate myself for it.  On a bad bout, I usually feel unable to make eye contact with other people.

Drawing attention to “ME” is something I know a lot about.  It has stood in good stead with public speaking and general leadership.  This trait is less about oozing with confidence, but more a self-centred desperation to be centre stage.  However, I am a good listener and hold a genuine compassion for the plight of others, despite a stupid inherent belief that my issues are more important.  This is something you learn to control through living life.  None of us want to be too far up our own backside!

I have had a sh1t life.  There is a need to use that experience to reach out to other people.  I feel this belief is better than believing all that suffering was in vain.

I am very interested in what both Steve and CaptK were saying about certain traits running in families.  Without doubt, I did learn many of my depressive traits from my mother.  We are more alike than I like to admit.  When researching PD, I could relate many of the symptoms to my Mum.

One thing I would like to finish on is something I am becoming more aware of in recent days.  I have a deep shame for some of the PD traits.  Let’s face it; the traits are not exactly personality of the year!  So, I underplay a considerable amount of my PD; hide it like some kind of shameful secret.  I even hide it from the Psychiatrist.  This is something I probably need to work on at my next appointment.

This thread helps put my thoughts in order and almost come to terms with this new diagnosis.  My posts tend to be a bit long, but I hope all of our posts, collectively, will be a source of info.  Personality Disorder is not something we know a lot about.  It’s good to have somewhere that helps gain a better understanding of a very debilitating condition.

[Buttercup]

Hi Cat

Just picking up on something you said, who doesn't hide things from their psychiatrist? I admitted it to mine and she said that it was fine its a natural form of self defence and when we're comfortable it will come out.

I'm terrible I hide a lot of what I feel & it's true it's all in self defence partly from myself and partly from others.

I identify with the anxious, cluster c traits. I haven't really seen it in my family, then I haven't really looked. My past only really troubled me when I'm down.

I'll think more about this tomorrow, I'm tired & rambling.

[captainkeefy]

Hi All,

I must admit that there isn't any part of my childhood that I would have difficulty thinking about. From what I've been thinking about I remember my Dad leaving home. Then I remember some things which I would describe as abusive from my Mum. Her leaving me in the flat one night when I was about 3, she had asked a neighbor to keep an eye on me but from what I remember I'm sure their front door was shut. I remember her making me smoke a cigarette at the same age and I'm pretty sure I did a poop in the bath by accident and was made to clean the bath out.

After this I remember moving, not long after we moved I fell through a glass cabinet, I vivid remember walking backwards and seeing the chair I was walking backwards to sit on in front of me and thinking and thinking 'why is that next to me?' then I fell backwards, I was walking backwards to sit on it and completely missed it and went straight through a glass cabinet that was full of beer glasses. I don't remember anything after falling, apparently I was covered in blood but I don't remember a thing after the fall.

At this time I was really lonely. I was in my room all the time. It was like one minute I was adored and the next I was hated (Pull/Push?) I packed my bags twice because I thought there was no point living there if nobody loved me. There was a string of boyfriends come and go while I sat in my bedroom. Every time I did something wrong I got punched or kicked. Then my cousin moved in as his Mum threw him out (he was later diagnosed as a schizophrenic.) It wasn't all bad, more lonely than anything. I always felt lonely. This carried on into high school, then I realized that if I got good grades I got special attention and then the attention seeking started. Then my Mum started her binge drinking and used to drag me out of bed in the middle of the night and give me loads of verbal abuse about how I was ungrateful and was lucky and once I she tried to take an overdose in front of me.

I've done 3 PD tests now, one says I am 86%-90% histrionic another said 'Your score indicates that you have histrionic personality disorder, we advise you contact a local psychiatrist for evaluation.' and another said "You should seriously consider that the person you described in the test has histrionic personality disorder."

This is a general personality test: http://similarminds.com/global-adv.html

Extraversion    ||||||||||||||||||||    83%
Stability       0%
Orderliness       0%
Accommodation    ||||||    22%
Intellectual    ||||||||||||    41%
Interdependence    ||||||||||||||||||||||    100%
Mystical    ||||||||||    33%
Materialism    ||||||||||||||||||    75%
Narcissism    ||||||||||||    50%
Adventurousness    ||||||||||||||||    66%
Work ethic    ||||||||||    33%
Conflict seeking    ||||||    25%
Need to dominate    ||||||||||||||||||    75%
Romantic    ||||||||||||||||||||||    100%
Avoidant       0%
Anti-authority    ||||||||||||||||||||||    100%
   
Wealth       0%
Dependency    ||    5%
Change averse       0%
Cautiousness       0%
Individuality    ||||||||||||||||    66%
Sexuality    ||||||||||||||||||||||    100%
Peter pan complex    ||||||||||||||||    66%
Histrionic    ||||||||||||||||||||||    100%  %$£
Vanity    ||||||||||||||||||||||    91%
Artistic    ||||||||||||    41%
Hedonism    ||||||||||||||||||||||    94%
Physical fitness    ||||    16%
Religious       0%
Paranoia    ||||||||||    33%
Hypersensitivity       0%
Indie       0%

[Catbrian]

That's very interesting CaptK what you say.  I will respond to your post later today. I have the CPN at 9am.  I will also try make time to do that test today

Later...

[captainkeefy]

Hi Catb,

I find in that test it doesn't just directly point towards the Histrionic but also other Traits of HPD i.e. Extroversion, Interdependence (relying on other people to see me as a good person?)  Materialism, Need to dominate, Romantic, Sexuality, Histrionic, Vanity are from what I've read potential traits and I score high in them. Hedonism, from what I read on that website sounds very similar to Histrionic. Also Change averse and Cautiousness I scored very low on, well 0% and I'm incredibly impulsive. The anti authority thing, embarrassing to admit but I have been arrested twice drawing the Polices attention to myself 

I think back to my first session in therapy to my answers. Namely how I socialize "I tend to find a group of people that won't reject and then I want to be the alpha male in that group." High school "I started doing really well in school and enjoyed the praise and attention, as soon as it stopped I went off the rails and started hanging around with trouble makers. Like they say, bad attention is better than no attention." Work "I like to think I'm the best at everything I do, I like to really express myself in work and think I deserve special treatment for it. As soon as the praise stops and I get criticized, I leave the job. I'm narcissistic aren't I? "  my therapist replied " Your not narcissistic, I would have spotted it as soon as you walked in."

My Wife has said I'm a drama queen, she doesn't know what I'm going to do next for attention. she calls me a womanizer and a flirt. I've been described as a pycho for not expressing my true emotions, also very complicated. Always looking for praise. When I express emotions she thinks they are all exaggerated, i.e. depressed or elated, insecure (abandonment issue) angry, a bully, manipulative, controlling and jealous.

I really need to stop worrying about what I have though as its not helping. As they say curiosity killed the cat, but try putting the most impulsive person you know in a room from 2 weeks with a present for them and tell not to touch it! I'd last an hour.     

[Catbrian]

I just wanted my scores on the same page so as to compare...

Paranoid   74%   
Schizoid   74%   
Schizotypal   74%   
Antisocial   34%   
Borderline   66%   
Histrionic   78%   
Narcissistic   54%   
Avoidant   26%   
Dependent   42%   
Obsessive-Compulsive   54%