Never had faith

[mrmoody]

yes but I think aethism and science tie in quite nicely. Not saying that there arent christian scientists as I know there are. Maybe so, maybe a conspiracy theory thread also lol. On second thoughts lets not

[Zaf]

Do you think a science section should be in the religious section or elsewhere?

[Beetzart]

Might be an idea, Zaf.

I read something else today that made my head dizzy.  All particles have a particular spin, but not a spin like we may imagine, in fact it can't be described with our language.  Take electrons for example, they are indistinguishable from each other, they have a spin of 1/2.  Which in the book explained it as if you would have to rotate it 180 degrees for it to look the same again.  Imagine a double headed arrow, rotated by a half it would exactly the same as it did before.  Some particles have a spin of 1 which would be like a single arrow head, it has to go full circle to look the same.  Now some particles have a spin of 2 which mean they have to rotate twice before they look the same!!!!!!  How can that be?  But mathematically it is sound.

I'm still trying to get my head around it, but in summary (corrrect me if I am wrong, I would welcome a better explanation then I can give):

Elementary particles like electrons, quarks, have a spin = 1/2 and are called fermions.  Electrons don't share the same quantum state as other particles which in turn meant the variety of 92 elements could from.  Without spin we simply would not exist!  A lot of it is to do with the probability of a particle occupying a state as it's momentum and position can never be known simultaneously.

[mrmoody]

Phew! Erm, yeah, lets have a science section maybe. Head spinning

[Zaf]

Thats mind boggling Beet, where did you read it?


I'll ask Pip if she would make one Alex

Z x

[Beetzart]

Thats mind boggling Beet, where did you read it?


I'll ask Pip if she would make one Alex

Z x

We need to talk about Kelvin by Marcus Chown

He has a set of books and this is the most recent one of his I have at present.  He is a British Cosmologist and very good at describing very complex, and at times disgusting, seemingly ridiculous quantum concepts, in everyday language.  Although in one book he has to admit that any further explanation of a particular theory can only be explained mathematically.  

Another thing is about photons.  They don't accelerate and don't exist until an atom randomly decides to spit them out.  But they can be a wave and a particle at the same time.  They have no rest mass because they are never at rest but they have effective mass because they are force carriers, also called bosons.  You see them every waking moment yet you can't see them.  

[Zaf]

It really is fascinating, I shall see if I can get a copy

Z xx

[mrmoody]

Mind boggling and certainly more awe inspiring and intriuging than any conspiracy theory. I just cant get my head around it though, I try to visualise it in my head and maybe thats not the way to understand a concept.

[Beetzart]

Mind boggling and certainly more awe inspiring and intriuging than any conspiracy theory. I just cant get my head around it though, I try to visualise it in my head and maybe thats not the way to understand a concept.

That's right, Alex.  It is impossible to visualise anything with quantum mechanics, it is even hard to compare it to anything in everyday life.  We think of atoms as little balls with electrons buzzing around the nucleus but you could never see an electron, say.  The concept of seeing one is no existent, we can only measure and see it's effects.  But around you now are quadrillions and more of them supporting you on the chair, getting messages from your brain to your hands.  Although, and this is really crazy, moreso then anything Icke et al could conjure up, Richard Feynman and a colleague in the 60s suggested that there may only be one electron in the entire universe but it manages to be everywhere in an instant.  Mind you this is only a suggestion, no one is saying it is fact.  You will always here Icke say that solid things are mainly empty space because atoms are mainly empty, he tries to use this to justify his spiritual tosh.  He forgets to mention that it is the wave function on an electron (I think) that stops it plunging into the nuclues of an atom which create a force.  Electron don't like mingling with other particles so when you put force on them they go ape and fly around bouncing off other particles and this is what stops your hand going through a brick wall as if by magic.  Icke misses the point, or at least he fails to mention the whole story.  Again, an example of picking the bits that suit him.

NB I find it hard to explain all this in any context, so if anyone can describe it better I would be really grateful.

[mrmoody]

I think you've done a great job and I dont pretend to understand any of it as a concept. I have a visual mind, hence why I like fiction and can draw fairly well. I dip my toe into science and its amazing stuff but I merely reads bit and parts that others have discovered or come to conclusions and made theories about. I have always loved astronomy but even alot of that is beyond me such as astrophysics. Trying to get my head round what a black hole is mind bending.

I was tempted to look at Icke's website since you mentioned it here but dont think I will bother. It will just annoy me.

[Zaf]

I wonder if its worth transferring this discussion to the science section?

[Beetzart]

Might be a good idea, Zaf.   $%$

[Zaf]

If I cant find out how I'll ask Pip  ()(

[sad sack]

It's a strange one for me…..

I don’t believe in God, Jesus etc… and I think the bible is just a collection of camp fire stories…

I don’t trust or really understand people that believe in it, or think that it’s all real – in fact, to me it shows there is something “missing” from their head and their thought process and logic.

Nor do I think there is some massive cover up or fraud, a la the Di Vinci code etc etc…

But, I do believe that the church and religion in general not only held the world back, but continues to be a major source of evil in this planet and something which we could do without…

People wandering about killing in the name of god… my god is better than your god… sorry, my imaginary person is better than your imaginary person… etc etc



However… I am spiritual, I have seen “ghosts” and I know I had my dead granddad looking after me growing up.. several other people have seen him as well.

I also know that when my wee nephew was really ill and dying in hospital, I prayed to God… and begged him to take me and not the wee guy…

Does that make me a hypocrite… yeah… I guess it does…

 

[Beetzart]

To be honest, Sad Sack, I don't really 'get' spirituality, it all seems so tenuous.  Maybe it is something to fill a void we are yet to understand.