Never had faith

[mrmoody]

Its nice to think these atoms, me, you, this screen, the phone I write this message on were all formed a long time ago in the heart of a now extinct star. Now that is wonderous and fills me with awe! (is wonderous even a word? lol)

[Zaf]

Just pulling your leg a little Alex, I dont even think of it as an entity, there should be a word that describes something genderless as 'it' somehow sounds rude!

That too fills me with awe, to think the carbon in my body could be from an extinct tree or the atoms in one eye from one star and another star in my other eye.  There is so much we dont understand yet, and perhaps never will.  Another thing that totally amazes me is that atoms are mostly space which means everything is mostly space but at the same time solid

Z xx

[mrmoody]

Or that the universe is made up of most dark matter and dark energy, which sciencists dont even quite know what it is. Which is more intriuging than any weird,wacko conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories are only interesting in the sense of why people believe in them.

[mrmoody]

or the idea of multi-universes, alternate universes etc. That there could possibly several of me and you but leading a different life. All fantastical theoretical possibilities but still more interesting than the stuff of consipiracists, or woo-woos as Beet calls them. Sorry for any spelling errors

[Zaf]

The universe (or universes) are just so amazing and we are such a tiny part of the whole

[Beetzart]

Hugh Everett's Many Worlds Interpretation is very intriguing, Alex.  Some scientists have argued that you continually cheat death, ie you die in one Universe but keep experiencing the one where you survive.  It is just an idea, of course, but a lot has been written about it, and I doubt anyone would be brave enough to test it out.  It is all to do with wave functions I think but if you witness someone die then they are dead in your Universe, but from their prospective they have had a near miss.  Everett was quite a character.  He died at 51 and was grossly overweight, smoked and drank heavily, and being an atheist asked that his ashes could be just slung out with the garbage!

You're right though science is so much more interesting then stuff that is made up.  I mean I like fiction, but it stays that way in my mind.  Icke is such a poor researcher that he lazily just uses novels and films as evidence! 1984 is one he uses a lot, always saying 'Orwell knew more then he let on'.  WFT!  No he didn't.  1984 is a novel, a good one, but is not proof of a NWO or anything.  It's funny because you never see Icke quoting Orwell's other books about how he lived as a tramp in Paris and London, or fought in the Spanish Civil war.  Then again I suppose they don't confirm his bias!  Icke also quote mines famous people like Einstein, or Ghandi as if they would have wholeheartedly agreed with him.

[mrmoody]

Yeah odd that they, he, cherry picks bits of information from well known authors, leaders and scientists who are all dead now! They arent alive to contest his crackpot ideas.

Yes I have a friend who listens to Alex Jones podcasts, asked me what I thought of David Icke. He lives alone out in Poland in a field, before that in Italy. He refuses to admit he is basically homeless. He would say crackpot ideas like police and ambulance sirens are switched on only to instill fear in us as a society. I find him draining and those kind of ideas made me angry. So ambulances, fire engines, police arent racing to an injured person/fire/scene of crime, they are just on for no reason except to make us think there is a crime happening and instill fear in us!

Also he loved 1984 (I think its a great book as a piece of fiction not a bible as such). He quotes parts all the time as though they are actually taking place today in society, especially the part about the book by Goldstein. In fact he ignores the rest of the story which I think was basically a great piece of fiction as you said Beet. I think its a book on many levels including a love story and how Big Brother gets into your head so as to destroy any humanity and emotions so as the only thing left is love of Big Brother. But hey that part of the book isnt worth reading eh, just cherry pick the bits that suit your crackpot philisophy on life

Down And Out In Paris And London was also a great book, funny and I can relate to it having worked in hotels, kitchens and been down and out myself. Strange like you say that they never mention that book. Or The Road To Wigan Pier etc.

I find my friend draining to be honest and the bit that really got to me was when I was out in Italy with him he told me to never have my mobile phone near him, even though the battery was flat. He said there were sensors in it that could pick up our postion and listen in on our conversations even though the battery was dead. I question my friends mental health I really do

[Ezel]

How do you know God is a he?

Just catching up and you made me laugh Zaf.  I had a badge years ago that read 'When God made man she was joking'.

[Zaf]

   good one Pip

Z xx

[Sweetpea]

love it. S x x x x

[Beetzart]

I've been reading about the Pauli exclusion principle, and from what I gather, if it didn't exist then we wouldn't be here.  It explains why electrons don't like sharing space with other particles, which means that there is a variation of different atoms, which ultimately means we can exist.  That blows my mind, that our existence is down to something so microscopic and out of our control.  I used to believe that we had no free will and everything before and after the present was determined by a prior action, which would go back to the big bang, or forward to heat death/big crunch.  But that doesn't apply to the quantum world.  An atom may release a photon but it is utterly random, so does that mean that free will and determinism are both wrong? 

I actually feel euphoric when I read this stuff.  It is incredible, and at the same time so mind bogglingly simple and complex at the same time.  The beauty of relativity which Einstein worked out.  In effect gravity doesn't exist because all it is is acceleration.  As you are reading this you are accelerating towards the centre of the earth at 10 m/s^-2, but luckily the earth is accelerating back towards you at the same time.  If you are on a fairground ride that rotates at a constant speed, due to the constant change of direction you are actually accelerating!  Gravity though is an abstract field, just like electromagnetism.  So hard for me to get my head round it all, but I love it. 

This is why I find stuff from Icke so repugnant.  In an age where we are so advanced to spread lies and con thousands of people really winds me up.  Religion maybe a bit different because it has age on it's side but people are seeing through it. 

[Beetzart]

Take this page for instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi%E2%80%93Dirac_statistics

You show that to Icke and he will wave it away as songsheet science, slag it off, in general be all smug and ignorant.  Now I don't understand it, but I can appreciate that it wasn't scribbled down in a spare ten minutes.  Probably took many hours of hard work, sleepless nights, frustration, mistakes, dead ends, soul searching, table thumping, etc.  Icke just copies and pastes. 

[mrmoody]

Quite amazing stuff Beet, thanks for sharing but abit above my head. I once saw some skydivers plummeting to earth and then I could see gravity in effect. It then makes sense that we are constantly falling towards the earth.

I think Icke and cohorts are in denial, they steadfastedly grip onto their ideas and conspiracies and choose not to delve into science, it all being corrupt and plot to decieve us all no doubt by some alien lizards or some such bizzare concept. Maybe they are frightened by science really, knowing their philosophies and conspiracies will fall apart in the cold, bright light of science. Science is our greatest tool we have ever invented, shame some people even in the 21st century still want to bury their heads and deny it all.

[mrmoody]

Thanks for an interesting discussion Beet, Zaf, have really enjoyed it

[Zaf]

I wonder if a science section might be worthwhile?