Stuck in the middle...

[Grant]

Hi All,

I understand Depression.  I have been there before, feeling like life has no joy...being at the bottom of a pit, desperately wanting to climb out, but not knowing how to!  I remember feeling like being hit by a truck would not be a bad thing (although suicide was never an option)... ...and I remember finally getting out of it.
The thing that clicked was my realisation that I HAD TO CHANGE – the world was not going to.  I had to accept that people will do bad things, people will be unfair or selfish, and that it was part of life I could not change.

I took the phrase “Do unto others as you will have them do unto you”, and changed it to “Do unto others as you will have them do unto you, BUT DONT EXPECT THE SAME IN RETURN”
I changed my expectations of the world, and am now back to my bubbly self.

BUT...  I am newly married.  My wife has been suffering with depression since before we were engaged – and here’s the part I battle with:
I KNOW where her perspectives have been warped – I KNOW where her thinking patterns are preventing her from breaking it...and I KNOW how hard it is to overcome it all.  As somebody who has been through it himself, I know how vulnerable she feels, and how small things can seem like mountains... but the steps that she needs to take are so obvious to me.  Remember, she is my wife, and I know her well, so I can read what she is doing, AND I have experienced what she feels, so understand it too.  But she resists my help.

She feels like I am trying to be superior to her by telling her what she is doing wrong (although I usually avoid that – I try to show her a different perspective instead of knocking hers).  She knows she has a problem, and really does try.

I feel so frustrated knowing how she can overcome this, but her being unwilling to accept this as help.  She sees my advice as “authoritative”, which she has a problem with.

Any suggestions?

[Munchroom]

Hi Grant - I can see how this must be incredibly frustrating for you. When anyone we love is in pain we'd give anything to 'flick a switch' and get them out of it.

I do also see if from your wife's point of view though.  As I am sure you are well aware, when we are depressed we feel COMPLETELY isolated. I am also very fortunate in the fact that I do have a wonderful fiancée who has stuck by me through all of the Peter stuff and all of my depression - and he is very practically minded. He has, thankfully, never had depression, but I know he finds it incredibly frustrating when he can see that, for example, if I was to go out with him and the dog in the evening, it might help lift me a little and it could actually help me sleep.... BUT my mind is saying no. I know, practically, he is right. But because I have no motivation, because my mind is going 'yeah - might help for like... an hour, but after that, you are gonna be feeling exactly the same...' I say no, he gets frustrated, he goes out, slamming the door behind him and I end up feeling worse because now I've upset him when I know all he is trying to to is help!

I think all you can do is be there for her. Suggest things that you can do together - but if she says no then you need to realise WHY she is saying no. You have though, put that idea into her mind, she may not do what you've suggested today - but on a 'good day' she might be slightly more receptive to it because its not been sprung on her out of the blue. Depression is such a frustrating illness for everyone involved - not just the person that is suffering. People on the outside can SEE what would maybe help, whether they have been there or not, but you have the fortunate insight to know how isolating it does feel to be fighting against the constant thoughts and questions in your own mind - try and imagine how it would be if the situation was in reverse. If you were at your lowest low and your wife, with all good intentions was trying to lift you out of it because she had been there before.... I know myself that in a way, it would put added pressure on me to feel better because what has been suggested has worked for someone else, if it then doesn't work straight away, is she then going to feel worse?

As I'm sure you are well aware, recovery is all about 'baby steps' - taking one thing at a time and overcoming it. She will get there with your support - but, as frustrating as that it is, thats all you can do - support her. To someone who is so overcome with depression that they cannot see a way out, support really is the best thing. Just someone to curl up with and watch a film and try and escape for a few hours is worth the world!

Good luck!  :)

[Grant]

Thanks Munchroom,

I do know what you mean about internal motivation.  I loved sport, but couldnt play it because I just had nothing in me - and being forced to do it would not have helped.  Its not that I cant handle her being low - the part that I battle with is when she expends so much ENERGY fighting fights that dont need to be fought (or cannot be won).

As an example:
My family are VERY relaxed, open and fuss-free.  If I have a BBQ, I'll invite my brothers - I'll expect them to bring their wives etc...if they want to bring a friend or two too, then I'm fine with it.  I will start the fire, maybe get some crisps, and if anyone wants anything else, then they must get it.  My whole family is like that.  We dont feel like we need to ENTERTAIN.  We dont stress about what drinks to get.  If I've got coke and my brother wants beer, then he can go get some beer - no problem! :) We are all like this...

Now when my brother invited me to his place for lunch, and I told my wife, she asked "So why didnt he invite ME".  I say to her that obviously she is invited - in fact her presence would be expected.  I will tell her that I do exactly the same thing - invite my brothers and expect that the invite gets forwarded to their other halves.  She wont see it that way.  She will see it as them going "out of their way" to exclude her - like they have a problem with her.
Now how exactly does one support THAT?  If I agree with her, I am basically reinforcing her own low self-esteem (and basically telling her that my brothers DONT like her - which would be stupid and a lie at the same time).  If I try to explain that his intentions WERE good, and that she IS welcomed and liked, then I'm taking sides - and certainly not HER side!  If I keep quiet about it, then I'm disapproving, and she feels like she's being looked down on.

The way that I see it is that, whilst I understand she is feeling vulnerable, my only option is to tell her what the reality is.  How can I be supportive, but also stop these situations from becoming so warped?  I might not be able to give her what she wants - but if what she wants makes me a reinforcement of her negativity, I cant see any possible positive outcome from it.

Know what I mean?

[Munchroom]

I do know what you mean Grant - and from reading that example it would seem that one of the main issues is her low self esteem. No-ones fault, my self esteem is in the gutter and I have the most lovely boyfriend and family you could wish for! But logic does tend to go out of the window and as I'm sure we're all too aware of - depression IS, ultimately, a 'warped' way of thinking for anyone that is not in that mindset.

Personally the situation you have described above would put the fear of god into me - even now! I have avoided family occasions during the past year because I know that pushing myself too far when I know I won't be able to cope with it would do no favours for anyone. If you are sure that your wife IS ready to cope with such social situations then perhaps just re-phrase it 'my brothers invited US to lunch' (Its not even a white lie - it is effectively what he IS doing!) It sounds so simple, but could perhaps be the trick! If she still decides not to go, really emphasise how much she was missed when you get home.

You are very fortunate to have such a laid back family, and I am sure if she wasn't ill then she could also appreciate this fact - but  she needs building up right now. Things that you might take for granted and don't think need to be said could be exactly the things that help her out of this. I'm probably 'teaching my grandma to suck eggs' as the saying goes, but I can't emphasise enough just having someone there, for a hug or a few kind words is sometimes the best thing we can hope for in a situation!

Please take care of yourself through all of this! As you said to me in my post about Peter, there is a lot of emotional investment in looking after someone who is suffering, she is your wife and I know myself that I would do ANYTHING for my partner - but you have been here before, so don't forget to look out for your own triggers and please please make sure that YOU have someone to talk to and a way to vent. We all need it for our own peace of mind!  :)

[lightenup]

Hi Grant, I am so pleased you are cured from your depression.  You are so lucky you never felt like  taking your life or attempting it, these have been my darkest hours personally.  The fright I have of these feelings are very hard too handle.  in times of deep dispair I keep my children's faces in the forfront of my mind.  I was always the logical strong person in our family, and handle things easily or pushed them to the back of my mind.  The one thing that is bothering me is that you understand your own family, and you understand your wife's depression and the need to put negative's into positive's, then why did you not tell her both of you where invited to your brother's.  Maybe this will help in the future.  My husband always pushes me to keep me going, but some days when I am feeling so low the panic and anxiety is so hightened and he can see the signs, on these days he will run me a bath and keep in chat, and keeps me feeling safe.  I think is difficult for the partners of people with depression and must be very frustrating for them.  As Munchroom says you also must take care of yourself.   

[Grant]

Munchroom and Lightenup,

Thanks for your replies.  I know what you are saying with being careful about how you word things, but the invite thing was merely an example.  Lets use our living arrangements as another example.  We are in a house-share with people I have known for a long time.  Not ideal I know, but we have only recently arrived in the UK.  We were not married when we came, so she could only come on a student visa - so I had to pay for her course, and since then, she has not been allowed to work, meaning I have been the only source of income.  With my income I have to feed and clothe us both (bearing in mind that we came from sunny South Africa where shorts and t-shirts are all thats required, and now had to stock up on coats and boots!   I also had to pay rent, some kind of entertainment, and still save for the wedding, and her new Visa application.  It has meant that we simply have not been able to afford a place of our own, although thats now on the very near horizon.

Anyway - she will get angry and upset about living the way we are, which I can handle...but then it turns into resentment - as though it is my fault.  I try to talk her through it, letting her know that its NOT ideal, and that I understand that it is hard BUT that we just need to put up with it a little longer as we are almost there.
She will then keep on hitting out at how she cant live like this...criticise me for being "miserly" with the money...for making her feel like she had to ASK for everything (even tough all spending money I put solely in her control)...which would inevitably led to a fight.  What can I say or do about the living conditions other than tell her its temporary?  What can I do about the finances other than explain to her what money we have and where it has to go?  How do I SUPPORT her notion that everything is bad, and that I'm the cause of it?  I know that she's looking at it from a bad angle - but if I show her another angle I'm telling her what to do.  If I support her I'm basically telling her that I'm a lousy husband (which helps neither of us), and if I ignore it, well then I'm ignoring HER.  Its kinda like the "does my bum look big in this" question (In terms of steriotype... In reality I love her bum )

In terms of looking after myself too - I know - I'm very aware of that slope, and very conscious of anything that can pull me back down it.  Most things I can turn away from, ignore or forget... none of those are an option with the woman I love though! :s

I'm in this for the long-haul...and if I end up back where I started whilst trying to see my wife through it, then I guess thats just a risk I have to take.  I just really hope that something clicks in her before something breaks in me :s

[lightenup]

Hi Grant, unfortunately this is an awful situation for you both you.  But you cannot be blamed for everything and know that this situation is not your fault.  I hope she knows this, although I have to say when we are down we take it out on our nearest and dearest.  As I have said before sometimes I wonder why my husband stays with me.  It has taken me a while to control my rages, no excuses in my behalf but part of the tiredness and hugh frustration.  The good thing with CBT was to acknowledge and understand what was happening.

I also believe that for years I worked in a very stressful jobs with very long hours, and away from home a lot, I lost 3 siblings and then my job.  To be honest I was powered by adrenaline, then bang.  Please be careful for yourself, as I know you feel well it may be that you are living on that high of coping with everything, hope you know what I mean. Take care.   

[Munchroom]

Hi Grant...

As lighten up says this is an awful situation, for the both of you. I think you are doing so, so well for dealing with things as you have been - in my opinion though (and this IS just my opinion) you have to be 100% honest with her, about your frustrations as well as the finances. When somebody close to you is battling with depression I can understand how strong the urge is to just try and shield them from everything and do anything to make them better, but in this day and age - that is unfortunately not possible. 

I have been out of work since last August and up until that point I was VERY up together with my finances. I had been brought up with the opinion 'if you cant afford it, you don't have it' hence no credit cards, no loans (apart from the mortgage we had taken out the previous November) and working bloody long hours and really hard to save up for the big things we wanted (i.e our wedding) then BAM! I was suddenly not working - it took months to sort out Employment & Support Allowance (and even now it is more of a hassle than a help! But thats a whole other story....) My boyfriend works long hours and for the past 9 months has been the only person bringing in any money and we have to be careful with that money. Mortgage, food, insurance, (our much smaller now) social lives, christmas, clothes... everything has pretty much come out of the money he brings home. BUT he hasn't treated me with kid gloves because I'm ill, all the way along he has been 100% honest with me about the money situation and he's told me, or I have been able to sense when he is stressed or worried and we've talked about it. I would never dream of accusing him of being 'miserly' with what is effectively HIS money, I have absolutely no right to do that, he has earnt it and it is because of that fact we are both able to stay living where we are, have a car, eat and still live relatively comfortable lives - at the end of the day it is because of me that we do not have 2 wages coming in. 

I feel that this is a bit rambly and I don't know if I have got my point across as clearly as I had hoped - basically, I'm trying to get across that it may be one option to be slightly cruel to be kind! I would not appreciate it if my partner wasn't telling me things/treating me with kid gloves because he was worried how I would deal with it - we are in this together at the end of the day and I need to be here for him as much as he is there for me and I honestly do believe that we have become so much stronger through all of this. Neither myself or lightenup are suggesting you 'ignore' or 'turn away' from what your wife is going through which we all know to well is awful, but you are married - you both made the vow to deal with hardships like this together.

As I said above, this is just my opinion and from reading just a few posts I, in no way claim to know what is best for anyones marriage - but you posted on here asking for advice or suggestions and this is mine.

I wish you both all the very best  :)