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41
The Lounge / Re: Members birthdays
« Last post by Amanda_George on April 25, 2025, 09:26:33 AM »
Happy birthday, lemonade_shock!   :excited:
42
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14639153/Keir-Starmer-gender-trans-women-PMQs-Kemi-Badenoch-Labour.html

Keir Starmer avoids admitting he was wrong to say 'trans women are women' as he's furiously accused of having 'no balls' by Kemi Badenoch at PMQs

By JAMES TAPSFIELD, POLITICAL EDITOR FOR MAILONLINE

Published: 12:41, 23 April 2025 | Updated: 14:24, 23 April 2025

Keir Starmer refused to concede he was wrong to say 'trans women are women' today during bruising clashes at PMQs.  In the first session since the Easter break, the premier was repeatedly challenged by Kemi Badenoch over his shifting views on gender.  She accused him of lacking 'moral courage' swiping that he 'doesn't have the balls' to reveal his true opinions in public.  The Tory leader also demanded that Sir Keir apologise for women's rights campaigner Rosie Duffield being 'hounded out' of the Labour Party. Ms Duffield - who now sits as an independent watched on in the Commons as he ducked the call.  The exchanges came after the PM finally gave a direct response to the Supreme Court ruling last week, confirming that women are defined by their biological sex for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010.  It means transgender women with a gender recognition certificate (GRC) can be excluded from single-sex spaces if 'proportionate'.  In contrast to Sir Keir, Health Secretary Wes Streeting has given a clear statement that trans women are 'by definition not the same as biological women'.

And Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy acknowledged during an interview that she 'misunderstood the application of the law' before the ruling.  Kicking off the debate this afternoon, Ms Badenoch said: 'Does the Prime Minister now accept that when he said that it was the law that trans women were women, he was wrong?'

Sir Keir  replied: 'Let me be clear, I welcome the Supreme Court ruling on this issue. It brings clarity and it will give confidence to women and, of course, to service providers.  The Equality and Human Rights Commission will now issue updated guidance, and it is important that that happens and that all service providers then act accordingly.  This Government's approach, and my approach, has been as follows: to support and implement the Supreme Court ruling, and we will, to continue to protect single-sex spaces based on biological sex, and we will, but also to ensure that trans people are treated with respect, and we will, and to ensure that everybody is given dignity in their everyday lives.  I do think this is the time now to lower the temperature, to move forward, and to conduct this debate with the care and compassion that it deserves. And I think that should unite the whole House.'

Ms Badenoch shot back that Sir Keir 'can't bring himself to admit he was wrong'.

She also told him to apologise to Ms Duffield for the way she was 'hounded out of Labour Party 'simply for telling the truth' about gender.  Ms Badenoch suggested the premier - who was on holiday last week had 'hidden' from responding to the Supreme Court ruling for six days because he was 'scared' and did not 'have the balls' to tackle the issues.  Sir Keir said that he did not want to turn gender issues into a 'political football'.  'I always approach this on the basis that we should treat everyone with dignity and respect, whatever their different views. And I will continue to do so,' he said.

'My approach will be to support the ruling, to protect single-sex spaces and treat everybody with dignity and respect, and I believe there's a consensus in this House and the country for that approach.'

Sir Keir has said the Supreme Court made clear that 'a woman is an adult female', marking a shift from his previous views that 'trans women are women'.

Ms Badenoch said: 'This is a question about moral courage, about doing the right thing even when it is difficult, and the truth is he doesn't have the balls. The Prime Minister only tells people what they want to hear, he is a weather vane who twists in the wind.  He cheered an ideology that denied safe spaces to women and girls because he thought it was cool to do so. He hounded a brave female MP out of his party for telling the truth he accepts now. And now he is hiding behind the Supreme Court judgment and isn't that because he doesn't know what he actually believes?'

Sir Keir replied: 'I can only assume that sounded better when she did it in the mirror earlier on. The truth is it doesn't really matter what the Leader of the Opposition says because nobody believes, none of them thinks she's going to lead them into the next election anyway.'

Speaking to local media yesterday, Sir Keir was asked to repeat his previous statement that 'transwomen are women'.  Instead he replied: 'I think the Supreme Court has answered that question.'

Asked if that means he does not believe a transwoman is a woman, he told ITV: 'A woman is an adult female, and the court has made that absolutely clear.'

Pressed afterwards whether Sir Keir still believed that a transgender woman was a woman, the PM's official spokesman said: 'No, the Supreme Court judgment has made clear that when looking at the Equality Act, a woman is a biological woman.  That is set out clearly by the court judgment.'

In March 2022, before entering No10, Sir Keir told The Times that 'a woman is a female adult, and in addition to that trans women are women, and that is not just my view that is actually the law'.

Asked during an appearance on the BBC's Politics Live if she stood by her own views on trans women, Ms Nandy said: 'I misunderstood the application of the law like many people. That's what we're working through now.'

Pressed that Sir Keir had been wrong in the statements he made previously, Ms Nandy said: 'He was recognising that when people have been through the gender recognition process and transitioned to a different gender that they can be recognised as that gender.  What this ruling says is that the provision of services is based on biology. Now that we've got that ruling that has big implications for the way that we provide services.'

Mr Streeting told the Sun that 'by definition trans women are trans women'.  'I have always and will always respect people's identities and I have no trouble whatsoever referring to trans women by their names, referring to them as women as shorthand, or using pronouns like she and her,' he said.

'I don't think that's an issue and I think the vast majority of people in our country would also want to be respectful in that way.  But by definition they're not the same as biological women.  There are important differences and that is particularly important in a health context.'

Earlier, author and women's rights campaigner JK Rowling said: 'Imagine being such a coward you can only muster the courage to tell the truth once the Supreme Court has ruled on what the truth is.'

Ms Duffield, who quit Labour last year, said Sir Keir's U-turn on whether a transgender woman is a woman showed he was a 'manager rather than a leader'.

She told LBC Radio: 'It's just another sign of the Prime Minister's lack of leadership skills. I'm bound to say that, he's a manager rather than a leader.  He responds and reacts rather than leads from the front, and this is what we're seeing again from him.'

Keir's gender journey

In 2022, Keir Starmer insisted that 'trans women are women' and that it was wrong to say 'only women have a cervix'.

In a newspaper interview in April 2023, he faced a backlash after claiming that 99.9 per cent of women do not have a penis implying that one in a thousand women do.  Later that year, following a backlash, he said he agreed with Tony Blair that men have a penis and women a vagina.  He also told BBC Radio 5 Live in 2023: 'Firstly, a woman is an adult female, so let's clear that one up.'

In April 2024 Sir Keir said Rosie Duffield then one of his Labour MPs was right to say 'only women have a cervix'.  He told ITV: 'Biologically, she of course is right about that.'

On policy, the Labour leader said in 2023 he disagreed with doomed proposals in Scotland that would have allowed 16 and 17-year-olds to apply for a gender recognition certificate.
43
The Lounge / Re: Members birthdays
« Last post by Pip on April 19, 2025, 04:09:29 PM »
Belated Happy Birthday MoshyMonster  :biggrin:
44
The Lounge / Re: Members birthdays
« Last post by Amanda_George on April 18, 2025, 06:07:35 AM »
It's MoshyMonster's turn to celebrate today!

:bday1:
45
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14607551/The-horror-Bergen-Belsen-80-years-British-troops-60-000-barely-alive-inmates-liberated-Nazi-camp-Anne-Frank-died.html

The horror of Bergen-Belsen 80 years on: How British troops found 60,000 barely alive inmates when they liberated Nazi camp where Anne Frank died

    WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT

By HARRY HOWARD, HISTORY EDITOR

Published: 01:56, 15 April 2025 | Updated: 08:09, 15 April 2025

They were scenes that brought home to the British people the full horror of Nazi depravity.  Eighty years ago today the British Army's 11th Armoured Division liberated Bergen-Belsen, the concentration camp in northern Germany.  Inside, they found 60,000 barely alive Jewish victims of the Holocaust, many of them suffering from typhus, dysentery and tuberculosis.  Scattered everywhere were the skeletal bodies of those who had already perished, as the stench of death lingered in the air.  Some had died directly at the hands of the camp's depraved commandant Josef Kramer, camp doctor Fritz Klein and guards who included whip-wielding Irma Grese.  All three monsters were executed on the same day later in 1945 by British hangman Albert Pierrepoint.   Among those for whom the British rescue came too late was Anne Frank, the Dutch teenager whose diary would go on to captivate the world.  She died at Belsen just weeks earlier in February or March 1945 - alongside her sister Margot.  The BBC's Richard Dimbleby, accompanying the liberating British troops, summed up the unimaginably monstrous scenes in a radio broadcast to the nation that would go down in history.  It was a report so graphic and distressing that Dimbleby's BBC bosses wanted to suppress it, with the broadcaster describing how he found himself 'in the world of a nightmare'.  Marking today's anniversary, Belsen survivor Mala Tribich, 94, told the PA news agency: 'Whatever I know, whatever I went through, I have not forgotten, because you don't forget that.  I hope that nothing like that will ever happen again, and of course, it's up to us to guard against it, and I hope that some people have learned the lessons.  We have seen that it could happen again, and we must take every step not to let it.'

Belsen had originally been set up to house Soviet prisoners of war but was then turned into a concentration camp in 1943.  The camp in northern Germany housed some of the Jews who had been rounded up in Poland, the Netherlands, Hungary and other areas.  Many inmates had been forced on 'death marches' to Belsen from Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp in occupied Poland.  Many were suffering from typhus, dysentery and tuberculosis. Overall, around 70,000 people died at Belsen.  The camp's horrors were documented on film by soldier-cameramen Sergeant Mike Lewis and Sergeant Bill Lawrie.  As members of the British Army's Film and Photographic Unit, they accompanied the British troops who liberated the camp.  Their film revealed the full horrors to the world for the first time.  The footage was shown to Britons again earlier this month in BBC documentary What They Found, which was directed by acclaimed director Sam Mendes.   The documentary narrates the footage with interviews carried out with Sergeant Lewis and Sergeant Lawrie in the 1980s.  Mrs Tribich was transported to Belsen with her cousin in early 1945.  Then aged just 14, she had already endured unimaginable horrors.  Born in 1930 in Piotrkow Trybunalski in Poland, she was around nine years old when the Nazis invaded.  Her family were forced to move into a ghetto the first one established in Poland.  She was temporarily taken to Czestochowa, where she tried to pass as a Christian relative of a family her parents had paid to look after her until deportations at the ghetto were over.  After some weeks, she returned to the ghetto, shortly after which her mother and eight-year-old sister were rounded up and murdered in a local forest.  Mrs Tribich became a slave labourer until November 1944 when she was separated from her father and brother and deported to the Ravensbruck concentration camp with her younger cousin.  After about 10 weeks, Ms Tribich and her cousin were transported in cattle trucks to Bergen-Belsen, spending their first night in a big tent outside the camp with arrivals from all over Europe.  Mrs Tribich had her possessions bundled up in a handkerchief, including a piece of bread that she was keeping for her little cousin, which was stolen in the short time she dozed off that first night.  'It couldn't have been for long but when I woke up my bundle was gone and it was like losing my worldly possessions,' she said. 'There wasn't much in it, but I felt, how could anybody do it?'

The following day they were taken into the camp.  'The scene that hit me was, first of all, there was a terrible smell,' Mrs Tribich said.

'There was a smell and a smog and there were people there but they were like skeletons and they were sort of shuffling along aimlessly and as they were shuffling they would die.  And there were piles of corpses. I remember one very big pile and small piles and the people were just dropping dead, literally.  There was a sort of turmoil and a slow movement of people and it was horrific.'

She overheard that there was a children's home in the camp where she and her cousin were accepted.  'That was a real bit of luck because we wouldn't have survived in the main camp,' Mrs Tribich said.

She spent some months there ill with typhus and said she does not remember much of liberation day because she was so sick.  Of April 15 1945, she said: 'I was on my upper bunk and I must have come to consciousness and when I looked out the window and there were people running towards the gate. I didn't know why or where actually but that was the liberation when the British took the camp.'

She added that she was left waiting in the empty barracks for two days before British troops came for her with a stretcher.  Mrs Tribich recalled: 'They were going to put me on the stretcher and I said: "No, that's all right, I can do it myself."  So I just tried to get out and I just collapsed. I wouldn't have been able to walk.'

She was transferred to a hospital before reuniting with her brother, Ben, in England in March 1947.  Dimbleby's 10-minute radio report was not broadcast until a few days after the journalist visited, because the broadcaster's bosses believed the public did not have the stomach for his words, and nor were they entirely sure that the report was reliable.  But Dimbleby, the father of esteemed broadcasting brothers David and Jonathan, made it clear that he would resign if his words were not aired, and so they were played on April 19, 1945.  He said in the broadcast: 'I wish with all my heart that everyone fighting in this war and above all those whose duty it is to direct the war from Britain and America could have come with me through the barbed-wire fence that leads to the inner compound of the camp,' he added. 

Outside it had been the lucky prisoners the men and women who had only just arrived at Belsen before we captured it.  But beyond the barrier was a whirling cloud of dust, the dust of thousands of slowly moving people, laden in itself with the deadly typhus germ.  And with the dust was a smell, sickly and thick, the smell of death and decay of corruption and filth.'

Having passed through the barrier and witnessing the 'nightmare' before him, he went on: 'Dead bodies, some of them in decay lay strewn about the road.  And along the rutted tracks on each side of the road were brown wooden huts. There were faces at the windows.  'The bony emaciated faces of starving women too weak to come outside propping themselves against the glass to see the daylight before they died.  And they were dying, every hour and every minute.  I saw a man wandering dazedly along the road then stagger and fall. Someone else looked down at him, took him by the heels and dragged him to the side of the road to join the other bodies lying unburied there.  No one else took the slightest notice, they didn't even trouble to turn their heads.'

One girl, a 'living skeleton', was so thin that it was 'impossible' to determine her age, he said. She pleaded: 'English, English. Medicine, medicine.'

A distraught mother laid her dying baby on the ground at the feet of a British soldier, pleading for some milk.  And the troops themselves were 'moved to cold fury' by the situation they were encountering, Dimbleby said.  He added that the British troops were doing everything they could to save the survivors.  However, more than 10,000 former inmates died in the days and weeks after liberation.  Tragically, some died because their bodies had lost the ability to digest the food that was given to them.  SS guards who had not already fled were put to work picking up decaying bodies and digging burial pits necessary because of the disease threat as they were watched by survivors.  Medical students were sent from Britain to help cope with the shortage of nurses and doctors who were struggling to treat the thousands of inmates that needed care.  With many too weak to survive despite the help they received, it took a month after liberation before the daily death rate fell below 100 for the first time.  British soldier Lieutenant-Colonel Leonard Berney was among the first troops in the camp.  He later recalled how there were 'long wooden huts with corpses littering the ground between them.  'In open areas at the rear of the huts, more piles of corpses. At the end of the road, we saw a large open mass grave containing hundreds of corpses.  The sights, the stench, the sheer horror of the place was indescribable.'

Lieutenant-Colonel Berney, who was then just 25 and himself from a Jewish family, became the camp's commander for more than three months.  Fortunately, there was a German barracks nearby with a hospital.  It was upgraded to accommodate an incredible 15,000 patients and became the focus of the efforts to save as many lives as possible.  Lieutenant-Colonel Berney also had to try to repatriate 29,000 Belsen survivors.  After Belsen was cleared, it was burned to the ground by soldiers carrying flame throwers and British Churchill Crocodile tanks.   Anne Frank's final days at Belsen were spent in the camp's sick barracks, where she did her best to care for her sister Margot.  The diarist's last moments are recounted in new book The Many Lives of Anne Frank, by historian Ruth Francis.  Anne, who was 'friendly and sweet' despite being feverish, said to her friends: 'Margot will sleep well and when she sleeps I won't need to get up again.'

Ms Francis adds: 'These are the last words of Anne's that anyone recorded.'

Anne's body was found with her sister's a few days later by her friends, siblings Janny and Lien Brilleslijper.   Janny later recounted: 'She stayed on her feet until Margot died; only then did she give in to her illness.'

The friends wrapped the corpses of Anne and Margot in a blanket and carried them to a mass grave.  Mrs Tribich, who was made an MBE in 2012 for services to education, shares her testimony in schools and colleges across the UK through the Holocaust Educational Trust, which gives tens of thousands of young people every year the unique opportunity to hear the first-hand testimony of Holocaust survivors.  Karen Pollock CBE, chief executive of the Trust, said: 'As we mark this significant anniversary, the lessons of the Holocaust remain as urgent as ever.  With survivors and liberators dwindling in number and with antisemitism continuing to persist in our society we must all commit to remembering the six million Jewish victims and must take action to ensure antisemitism is never again allowed to thrive.'

A new exhibition marking the anniversary of the liberation opened earlier this month at the Wiener Holocaust Library in London.  Among the exhibits in Traces of Belsen is a pamphlet that was published by the Daily Mail in 1945.  The document, titled 'Lest We forget: The Horrors of Nazi Concentration Camps Revealed for All Time in the Most Terrible Photographs Ever Published', was distributed around the country.   It includes some of the best-known photos documenting the atrocities uncovered at Belsen and other camps, including Buchenwald, which was liberated on April 11.  Also in the pamphlet were a series of articles that laid out in extensive detail the horrifying conditions and the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis at the camps.  The exhibition also reveals the lesser-known stories of Belsen, including how it was the site of the murder of 50,000 Soviet prisoners of war.  And it recounts how, after liberation, Belsen became a displaced persons camp and was the focus of the renewal of Jewish cultural and civic life.  Dr Toby Simpson, the Director of the Wiener Holocaust Library, said: 'Traces of Belsen takes a fresh look at a subject that many of us think we are familiar with, because of the images of overwhelming death and suffering that were broadcast to the world in April 1945.  The more we look at the evidence that remains, however, the more we can see that the catastrophic conditions in Belsen during the last months of the war, which so appalled the camps liberators and the wider world, produced shocking impressions which tend to obscure as much as they reveal.'
46
Fun Stuff / Elopement
« Last post by Pip on April 11, 2025, 05:30:27 PM »
Jim and Sally were deeply and desperately in love, so with the wisdom of youth, they decided to forego the formalities of a traditional ceremony to simply and secretly elope.  Their plan was the soul of simplicity: they would drive to a nearby town, find a Justice of the Peace and by nightfall would be man and wife.  As they drew near a small municipality, they saw an older man on a tractor, cutting the grass and weeds on the shoulder of the road.  Jim slowed down, Sally rolled down her window and they asked if the town boasted a JP.  "Yep." Was the reply.

"Where is the office?" Jim enquired.

"On the right as you come to the town square. Can't miss it." The old fellow informed them.

The eager couple thanked him and sped off.  When they came to the town. They immediately located the office of the JP.  Entering, they found a clerk who helpfully told them that the JP was not in, but should be returning soon.  They found chairs and waited rather impatiently for the magistrate.  After what seemed to the couple to be an inordinate wait, the door opened and a freshly showered gentleman appeared.   Jim said, "Say, aren't you the fellow who was driving the tractor?"

"Yep, that's me," the dignitary informed them, "The mower, the marryer"
47
The Lounge / Re: Members birthdays
« Last post by Pip on April 09, 2025, 06:07:45 PM »
Belated Happy Birthday ethil6!
48
The Lounge / Re: Members birthdays
« Last post by Amanda_George on April 08, 2025, 06:35:54 AM »
:bday1:  ethil6!
49
The Lounge / Re: Members birthdays
« Last post by Pip on April 06, 2025, 10:33:58 PM »
:bdayballoons: pippapoppa :bdaycake2:
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The Lounge / Re: Members birthdays
« Last post by Amanda_George on April 06, 2025, 06:19:31 PM »
How has your birthday been today,  pippapoppa?   :hug:
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