Depression Forums
General => The Lounge => Topic started by: BladeRunner on November 13, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
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As I like to read very much, I always find this an interesting topic. Just tell us which book (or what else) you are reading and maybe some lines about it, to get a disucssion started.
I am reading Stephen King's novella collection "Full Dark, No Stars" at the moment, and the first two stories kind of helped me through a horrible train travel after which I arrived more than 3 hours later at home than scheduled (and it would have taken 7 hours anyway) and my foot began killing me (it had been hurting for quite some while, but only now has it become an isse - perfect when you have to move and almost nobody helping you). The book was just right for that purpose, as you don't need to concentrate too much and the subject matter is awful enough to keep you distracted from your own trouble, at least a bit ;) King also seems to like reusing his successful formulas time and again, but this works most of the time imn his books, and makes them an entertaining and chilling read. From time to time, I love to read his books!
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I have just recently started reading Lord of the Rings, last time I tried I found it too deep and couldn't concentrate!
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I also have started LOTR several times, and I think I got through only once (and barely - or maybe I even didn't and only watched the movies, which were also a bit too long :D ). I don't really get into LOTR stuff - when reading (or watching) it, I always found it all a bit too much, often difficult to relate to and at times (have to admit it) really boring :D I like The Hobbit very much, however, which is of course a children's book :D Well maybe his more mature stuff ist just too much for me.
But please tell me how you like it now!
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I've just started reading (for the second time) Waiting For Godot by Samuel Beckett.
It's a very odd story where nothing at all happens but it's still a fascinating story in a very bleak, pointless, depressing way :P
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I'm reading The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying - so far very uplifting when I'm down but the text is tiny and I find it difficult to concentrate because of that
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The art of happiness. ...a book that works if I am not to badly depressed.
Also..Introduction to Buddhism....which we follow in my meditaion class. I can't possible belive in some of it as it is entirely unfounded, but some is practical advice.
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The first one sounds interesting, I might see if I can find it in Amazon
Which bits of Buddhism do you find hard to believe? I was very interested in Buddhism about 5 years ago but my sticking point was priests and ritual.
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Rebirth....nice idea, attractive even, but this is just speculation..there is no evidence for it.
The mind has no physicality and no physical objects can stand in its way. This is simply wrong, If I damage someones prefrontal cortex, we will most definatly see how a physical structure can change the mind. This idea that is has no form is highly subjective, and contradicts objective research. I understand the argument fully...but since this argument was developed, much science has contradicted it.
Some people can walk through walls...well I've never seen anyone manage that.
Some people can sink in to the ground as if it is water...again...not likely.
However...much of the philosophy is practical, sensible, and useful.
The art of happiness is the book with the Dalai Lama on the front. I like this book alot.
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There are a lot of things we believe in nowdays that there was no evidence for a couple of hundred of years ago, its possible that a conciousness remains after physical death but so far its not been proved (or disproved)
Got to agree with you on the walking through walls and sinking in ground bits, I'm not sure about the mind not having physicality but I do understand your argument.
I'll have a look on Amazon, thanks :)
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It has not been disproved, that is true. However, most of what we have accumulated in terms of knowledge, tells us in terms of probablity, that this is a philosophical beleif that serves to hold together a religion...as we have many, many examples of that...but no examples of rebirth. So in terms of probablity, it probably not true. We also have lots of understanding as to what a concious actualy is, how it functions, develops, and the functions it serves.
If I was to chose to believe in things without evidence, I could very well beleive I am a rich, famous artist with a beautiful wife. I have no evidence, but it is a beleif that could make me happy!
If you now think I am a cold, cynical miserable sod....you will get along well with my family and freinds!!! ha ha. Us scientists are an annoying bunch apparently. ::)
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Actually Zaf, I think you will really like the art of happiness. Some of the ideas and philosophies in it are something that I have contemplated deeply, and have been the focus of some of my meditations. I am using is as my first base of adopting an outlook that will hopefully go a long way in increasing my chances of a more stable life. I plan to build on this with some dharma teaching, lost of meditation, and of course putting positve behaviour and thinking into practice.
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It has not been disproved, that is true. However, most of what we have accumulated in terms of knowledge, tells us in terms of probablity, that this is a philosophical beleif that serves to hold together a religion...as we have many, many examples of that...but no examples of rebirth. So in terms of probablity, it probably not true. We also have lots of understanding as to what a concious actualy is, how it functions, develops, and the functions it serves.
If I was to chose to believe in things without evidence, I could very well beleive I am a rich, famous artist with a beautiful wife. I have no evidence, but it is a beleif that could make me happy!
If you now think I am a cold, cynical miserable sod....you will get along well with my family and freinds!!! ha ha. Us scientists are an annoying bunch apparently. ::)
I might wait till its proved or disproved before I make my mind up :)
Not at all, I was a totally confirmed athiest till a few years ago, my views changed but not sure why but I think it was when I iwas drawn to reading about lots of different beliefs as I became interested in religious history when I went off on a tangent following an interest in the history of Europe and the Ottoman empire. I believe some scientists actually have the opinion there must be a higher something (god?) in the universe, but I'm not convinced on that one.
I found the book in amazon so put it on my wish list, I love books but try to ration myself as I feel guilty if I spend too much at once!
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There are some scientist like this yes, although they represent a very tiny minority. There are actually papers published on this, I cannot remember the stats, but the value is low. Usually these people are from strong religious families, and are unable to break through the rigidity of thought it it often creates. For example, Robert Winston. Highly proclaimed scientist, but still claims to beleive that Juddaism is an accurate representation of the worlds events, even though all other evidence contradicts.
Lots of people hate Richard Dawkins, but his book, the God Delusion, I think is excellent.
Please pray to me five times a day and treat me as your God, and I promise that if you adopt my beliefs, you will be rewarded with an eternity of serendipity. I also accept money, gold, or any other expensive item as a token of your beleif in my own beliefs.
I think you will like the art of happiness alot.
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Please pray to me five times a day and treat me as your God, and I promise that if you adopt my beliefs, you will be rewarded with an eternity of serendipity. I also accept money, gold, or any other expensive item as a token of your beleif in my own beliefs.
I think you will like the art of happiness alot.
Thats what gives religion a bad name >:( I knew a chap years ago that was actually frightened that if he didnt attend mass every Sunday something terrible would happen to him. All through my readings on various religions there are usually promises and/or threats, its the way of the priests and organisations to keep contol of heir flock imo and has no place in true faith of any kind imo.
I've ordered the book, thanks :)
Bearing in mind you dont believe in god, but if you did what form would she/he/it take? Just curious, its something I ask a lot of people!
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Well to answer to that I would have to understand what a god is. What is a God? Is it a creator? In my understading, a god is a human concept that is borne out of a desire to explain the nature of the universe, provide comfort, and usually to maintain order and moral values. Also, if the world needs a god in order to exist, what does a god need in order to exist?
Enstein used to talk about god, and people thought this meant he belived in god. But by talking about god, Einstein was talking about the physics which was yet to be understood by human kind. He did not beleive in a god as an entity or a being, it was a term used to describe the yet unknown.
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Stevie, I absolutely understand your stance and think that George Carlin has expressed all of this in an absolutely hilarious way:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/youtube]
However, I hope no one here thinks this tone is wrong in such a debate (in a forum full of very sensitive people) because religion is kind of a delicate issue for many people, and of course I don't want to insult anyone['s beliefs]. But I think such opinions which many may deem a bit "radical" must also be addressed in a clear and unambiguous way.
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I suppose I worded that wrongly, when someone says god what picture does it bring to mind?
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Stevie, I absolutely understand your stance and think that George Carlin has expressed all of this in an absolutely hilarious way:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/youtube]
However, I hope no one here thinks this tone is wrong in such a debate (in a forum full of very sensitive people) because religion is kind of a delicate issue for many people, and of course I don't want to insult anyone['s beliefs]. But I think such opinions which many may deem a bit "radical" must also be addressed in a clear and unambiguous way.
I cant get it to work on my ipad, can you give me the gist of what it says?!
You may be right that this discussion is inappropriate in here, I would hate to upset anyone :(
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It brings to my mind the various human concepts of god. I have read many different concepts, ranging from the incomprehensible, to childish. Its honestly a question I cannot give a simple answer to, as to me a God is a human concept borne out of the reasons I mentioned earlier. God is such a commonly used word, that people often accept it has a meaning, even if they don't beleive in a god.
I suppose the first thing that springs into my ind when people use the word god, is: a restriction of thought in peoples mind; a desire to put a name on something; a desire for people to seek a purpose and meaning beyond the realms of science; indoctrination; and blood, misery, fear, pain and war and a lack of liberal morals often combined with a stagnation of society.
By stangation of scoiety I mean entire countries laking the ability to properly care for, medicate, feed themselves, and an inability to properly study science, medicine etc. I realise that often other factors go hand in hand with this, but god is usually a major part of it as far as I can see. I've lost count of how many people I had to explain that their work cannot be submited to a journal of science, because they seem to see the reasons for their discovery as an act of god. I find it difficult when people devote their time to praying for a solution to their babies illness, or their poor exam grades, or their poor financial situation, instead of devoting their time to doing something that is actually going to help. I've worked in quite a number of 'developing' countries, and to see the danger of this system of thinking is heartbreaking, and it worries me how many lives have been ruined, and even taken, by a beleif in god instead of common sense.
I suppose that sounds more like I am describing religion, not god, and I realise people beleive in god without having a religion...although I beleive that as long as people belive in god, the organisation of religion will continue, and all that it entails will follow.
I'm sorry if that sounds in anyway rude, it isn't supposed to be. I have many good religious friends and have even lived in the houses of Muslims in the middle east. Religion is something that I have a strong interest in, but as far as I can see, to accept the reality of a god, is to dismiss all other alternative theories....and I find it ironic when people tell me I am small minded for not beliving in god.
These are just my opinions of course that I am offering for discussion puposes only....they arnt supposed to be inflamatory in any way....I enjoy this kind of debate alot !!! :D :D :D
I can see you probably wanted a more simple answer....but I cannot give one.
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Yes.....I hope not to upset anyone.....its just opinions.....no offence intended to anyone at all. I feel that it is mature to debate anything in a respectful and sincere, mature way, as long as it is done politely and kindly..as we are al entitled to our own thoughts and we have a right to think and discuss..debate is the enemy of facism and arrogance!
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Regarding Carlin's little speech, you should bear in mind that it's a standup comedy act, albeit about a serious subject, and thus he of course simplifies and exaggerates things. I think the "brutality" of the wording and ideas should serve to incite discussions. I copypasted the gist of this act from wikiquote:
(..) Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time...But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull&$%+ story. Holy &$%+!
But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is ****** up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of &$%+ you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
No woman could or would ever **** things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a &$%+. Doesn't give a &$%+, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.
(..)
I think he of course makes these points from the view of a disgruntled ex-believer brought up as a catholic (like me :D), so the concept of god he rants about is a very catholic and vengeful one - but we were in fact still taught such stuff, and this is really the concept conveyed to us, so I think it's legitimate to attack this specific concept - not all believers of course! But please tell me if the text upsets anyone, I can delete it, but didn't really find a useful link so I wanted to copy it for you ;)
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I think you're right Stevie that 'god' is the desire to put a name to something, I thonk Taoism says that if you can name it or describe it then you've got the wrong thing.
Most people I ask that question go for an omnipotent being and their beliefs strongly resemble the quote from bladeruner (I do like the assumption god is a man and the reasons behind it!)
Definitely not rude, thought provoking if anything, I'm always curious how people think of god and religion so tell me off if I ask too many questions!
Thanks bladerunner, It makes me think of a rather naughty joke that was going round the pagan forums a few years ago! Perhaps if anyone objects to this discussion/debate we should delete it all but in the meantime (with my moderators hat on ) could you modify the F words to something else so as not to offend.
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I think I need to make something quite clear here.
If god is an omniscient, omnipotent superior being, what you are actually refering to is me.
It is the logical conclusion to this debate, that, in fact, I am god, and I should be worshiped accordingly.
Just in case you are concerned, i'm joking.
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:D :D :D
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I'm reading Keith Richards autobiography Life.
It was give to me by a friend that knows I like to ready biographies, but I'm not actually a Rolling Stones fan.
Good book so far tho.
I want to get through this and onto the new Terry Pratchett book Snuff.
I'm really into the Pratchett Discworld books. Have been for years :)
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I started reading ' Undoing depression' by Richard O'Connor about 3 weeks ago. Although there is not a lot of new information, I find some exersises very useful, like for instance 'the mood journal' or 'keeping a record of dysfunctional thoughts'. I also regularly work with Louise L. Hay's : 'You can heal your life' and the affirmations have helped me in the last 20 years.
I am reading 'Robinson Crusoe', which is obviously fiction and I find a lot of comfort in the character and the way he lives alone on this island. At the moment he has just returned to the Island, after he has returned to England and got married etc. and he is describing what the people, he had left behind are doing. How they built a life on this deserted island.
Any suggestions on what to read after this?
I am not too keen on 'waiting for Godod'. When we read this at school, I found it too dull, but obviously it is a classic. I have also already read the ' the Hobbit' and seen LOTR.
I £$%
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Difficult to make recommendations without really knowing what you're looking for - I actually don't really read any self help books regarding depression becuase I've only encountered not very useful ones (recommended by an even less useful therapist) and I search for any information in that regard on the internet. When it comes to fantasy, I am not very knowledgeable, either, but I would really recommend Neil Gaiman, in particular his rather sinister and imaginative graphic novel series "The Sandman" which displays a unique grasp of fantasy, taking place partially in the "realm of dreams" and in the real world and dealing with "real people" as well as the " Endless", which are personifications of dreams, death, despair etc. But it's not for everyone, and it took me a long time to decide whther I like it or not :D The good thing is that DC comics has made the first issue available for free, so everyone can make up their mind themselves about this: http://www.dccomics.com/media/excerpts/1696_1.pdf (http://www.dccomics.com/media/excerpts/1696_1.pdf) [warning, might take some time to load]
I also really like his novel "American Gods", which deals with personifications of ancient mythological gods living in today's America - sounds kind of really weird (and actually it is), but it works really well and I love the novel.
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I have just finished I, Partridge; Alan Partridge's autobiography by Steve Coogan and it was really funny/ cheered me up
Reading is my only comfort at the moment
Isserley
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ha har!!!!!!!!!! Needless to say, I had the last laugh
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i tend to read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy novels. i'm a massive pratchett fan, especially when it comes to the city watch series (sam vimes is the man!). robert jordan's wheel of time series is simply amazing and raymond e fiest has some good stuff in his riftwar books. sometimes i like to dip into the self help genre but it's a bit hit and miss in my experience. some titles are pretty good but there's a lot of crap out there. feel your fear and do it anyway by susan jeffers was pretty reasonable even though i'm a bit cynical when it somes to NLP. the prophet and in the garden of the prophet by Kahlil Gibran are also two of my faves and although they do read like semi-religious poetry i'd recomend them to anyone, especially those of a spiritual nature (both can be read online for free by googling the title).
if anyone could recoment some decent titles in the self hep bracket i'd be forever grateful.
zaf, i'm also fascinated with questions about god(s)/religion.
I think I need to make something quite clear here.
If god is an omniscient, omnipotent superior being, what you are actually refering to is me.
It is the logical conclusion to this debate, that, in fact, I am god, and I should be worshiped accordingly.
Just in case you are concerned, i'm joking.
joke or not that's actually pretty close to my thoughts on god. not that stevie himself is god, that'd be a bit weird...i won't be laying the foundations for the church of stevie the magnificent any time soon, sorry to say mate ;). but if i were to ammend your words to i am god and so is everyone and everything else around me, and all should be worshiped accordingly in a kind of "everything is sacred or nothing is" way, then i think that'd strike pretty close to the mark in my mind. i view god as kind of a gestalt entity comprised of everything that exists everywhere ever, be it animate or inanimate, organic or otherwise, just without the human characteristics which make the idea of god more familiar and relatable to humanity. that's just my take on it and of course i have absolutely no proof, and i am heavily influenced by buddhist and taoist philosophy so it might seem like a bit of a mish mash of ideas but i like it none the less ;D
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Very similar to my beliefs Hairy, I was very taken with Buddhism and Taosm before I found my present path (one of the versions of Sant Mat), but I found the rituals and worship a big sticking point for me with them both, which Sant Mat not only doesnt have but actually discourages.
As a Pagan I was an animist, (or something very close to those beliefs) and your description of how you view god is on very similar lines to mine by the sound of it too, my pagan beliefs very much fit in alongside my present path and they compliment each other very well.
I've tried lots of self help books but the one I'm reading at present while not actually a self help book I am finding very valuable - i got it at the same time as the Dali Lama book Stevie recommended but for some reason I chose to read it first, its Ancient Wisdom, Modern World (also Dali Lama), if I can go even part way towards modifying my feelings and actions towards others and myself I'm sure it will help reduce the stress in my life immensley and hopefully help me get over my current episode of depression and possibly even reduce the chances of becoming ill with it in the future.
Thanks for your recommendations Hairy, when I get back to a proper PC I'll see if I can find them to download.
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i know what you mean...many of the ceremonies and traditions are more about the religious institutions than they are about the beliefs those institutions were founded on, at least from a layman's perspective.
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^&*
Hi,
haven't been here for such a long time. Good to read posts again and touch back with people!!!
hey does anyone know how to change profile picture here?? tried very hard. Cannot see where to do it.
thanks.
Cinderella :-[
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hey does anyone know how to change profile picture here?? tried very hard. Cannot see where to do it.
Click on PROFILE then click on Forum Profile Information which is under Modify Profile. You then have a choice of choosing an avatar from the list or uploading one.