Depression Forums
Depression Related Forums => Depression Central => Topic started by: nocaph on November 26, 2012, 06:45:22 PM
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I know people who do. And I always tell them it's a medicine that people need in order to continue with their life. You don't see COPD patients saying "No, I don't want to be DEPENDENT on oxygen to get through my day".
Any thoughts/comments on this concern that seems to plague a lot of people? I think it's based in the stigma that still exists and inappropriate pride.
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I think attitudes and beliefs are deeply instilled into each one of us. While I agree with meds being just as justified and relevant in depression, as in OCPD, there's still a little part of me that's saying, "But, I'm still taking too many meds for my depression"
Most people I know with depression, have become dependent on mood stabilisers and Antidepressants, but I know there are others, with the same type and severity of depression, who choose to live without the meds.
So, I suppose (just thinking out loud here..), if you think about it, I believe there IS a big difference between an OCPD patient's need of drugs in order stay alive, and a depressives choice to use/not to use psycho drugs to beat their depression.
Do you ever start writing something with one set of beliefs, only to get to the end and find you've completely changed your mind? That's exactly what happened with this post
I like these thought provoking posts.... cheers!
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I know I need my antidepressants to stay alive. I know that if I were to stop taking them tonight, within a week I'd be in hospital or dead. I see no problem in "dependency" there, because in my case it is as important as oxygen.
As for cases of depression that can be tolerated without medication, why do those people do so? Why do they force themselves into tolerating the symptoms of their illness when they don't have to? Or is it a weird catch 22... seeing yourself as "dependent" on a medication to help your mood dents your mood in of itself. Fun debate, haha.
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I am in the process of weaning myself off my meds because i genuinely believe that they are doing nothing for me. I'm determined to proove this and so i'm making an extra effort each day & this is making me feel better than i have done in months! I just hope it lasts! I dont like being on the meds because i cant tell what is me or the depression or the meds. For me it brings another question mark into an already intangible equation.
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I went for almost 30 years of depression ruining my life, relationships, jobs, friendships, opportunities (basically burning every bridge I ever had and self-destruction pushing everyone away, eventually) and, about 6 months ago I crashed for the umpteenth time and sobbed on the phone to my Doctor.
The medication 'stabilises' me 90% of the time. A far better situation than I was ever in.
However, the lows are still there. I'm not saying I'm better. Not at all. But the days between the crashes are better. My mood on good days is more stable. But, on 'crash' days I need people to support me. That's the really tough part because only a small number of people with no understanding of depression can be counted on for support.
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These are touching posts with very valid points. They have given me food for thought+
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This is really interesting and thought provoking.
I do suffer reactively mildly without anti depressants, mainly as I can't take them. I did take Lamotrigine which helped until I developed a rash and I don't plan on using the alternatives unless things get awful.
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I felt like this recently....why am I popping a prozac every day?? I was at times almost feeling high - feeling so jolly yet my world is falling to bits (going through a divorce and little or no work). So I cut down my dose to one tab every other day. After a week or so I started feeling averagely grumpy and anxious again so I went back to taking one every day again. Now I'm back to feeling a little "high". But what is the alternative? Melancholy? being grumpy? bad tempered? How often do we see other people who, no matter what happens to them, are always cheerful and positive and wish we were like them? If it means popping prozac for years to feel like a whole person - then so be it. Even if we may feel "bad" taking it.
Sean
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and little or no work
I hear ya, Sean. Struggling with the same problem there which adds to worries and pushes me down further.
what is the alternative? Melancholy? being grumpy? bad tempered? How often do we see other people who, no matter what happens to them, are always cheerful and positive and wish we were like them? If it means popping prozac for years to feel like a whole person - then so be it.
Sean, those very thoughts go through my mind very often. I've spent 3 decades with the "alternatives" and I don't like "me" when I'm down so, if the medications reduces, slightly, the frequency and depth of the downs, so be it... I want to feel as close to 'positive', 'whole', 'happy' and 'cheerful' as possible.
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Reminds me of that Stephen King quote, they referenced it in the film Helen. I feel like I can't stop moving, doing things... I can't stop for one second because that's when I start thinking.
"What I do remember is a sense of reality is thin. I think it is thin you know, thin as a lake after a thaw, and we fill our lives with noise and motion to hide that thinness from ourselves"
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I can't stop for one second because that's when I start thinking.
Yep. That's me. The head starts going. Snowballing.
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I was only diagnosed this year - its been a &$%+ year - but I realized after some counseling and reading that I have suffered from bouts of depression for the last30 years or so - certainly since late teens. I just thought it was me - low self esteem, low confidence, grumpy if I did not get my way, sometimes short tempered with people who I knew I could get away with it, getting fed up with jobs, hobbies - always looking for the next thing, always thinking the grass was greener on new pastures. And where did it get me? No-where really. I find it easier if I have these thoughts back to identify them as the illness, take a deep breath and carry on trying to stay calm and relaxed. Now with ADs, these give me some of the feelings that have been only occasional visitors in my head - confidence, self assurance, clarity of thought (sometimes at least).
I met someone a few weeks ago who admitted to me that she had been on prozac for 10 years and had recenlty come off them. She seamed very confident (it was in a work context) and jolly. Do you think for some that long use can somehow kick start your brain into being more positive? Does it become habitual?
Oh and work. That's been &$%+ too. I've been supply teaching this year (primary)> I worked all last week but that was the first work I have had this school year. That's not helped. Sorry, whine over.
Sean
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Well I've been on antidepressants since I was 17, and I'm 24 now... and even now, within hours, literally hours of missing my dose this awful darkness comes over me.
My field of vision starts to "look" different in an indescribable way - like a hollowness, devoid of emotional colouring... I start feeling mentally shaky, nervous, unequivocally too frightened to carry on living... terrified of the air around me. And I know it's not any kind of withdrawal, I recognise it as that exact same feeling that led me onto antidepressants into the first place; the original depression that has to be covered up on the hour, every 24 hours.
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So from our discussion so far does that mean that, although we don't like to be dependent on ADs, we are in order to live a "normal" life? So there has to be a stoic acceptance of taking them. For some that can be a short period, for others it means the rest of their lives. What about replacing them with other treatments, huge life changes?
S
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Huge life changes can be hard - depending on age, commitments, family, etc.,
I've read and listened to many people who say things like "change you mind change your life" (or the other way around) but most often they forget that in the real world (beyond that or becoming a published author with a seemingly good idea) is that most of us couldn't simply decide one day to change our life.
Spouse, Children, Work, Mortgage/Rent, Etc., Etc., won;t take care of themselves and, very likely, would suffer or feel the impact on one way or another as a consequence of "change your life, change your mind".
I'd love to change MANY things but I sure am not going to flip the whole boat over with everyone in it just to see if my head fixes itself as a result.
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My psychiatrist told me that medication is not the answer BUT is a very important component. He used the analogy of getting to work in your car... you need petrol, air in your tyres and a working engine, you need all these components as without one it simply won't function as it should.
I was very 'anti' medication following my terrible experience with citalopram, however my psychiatrist said that if I was to go for CBT (what I wanted to have) WITHOUT medication... it wouldn't be as effective. I can totally see where he is coming from since being on mirtazapine for 3 weeks.. it has helped 'take the edge off' and engage better but in no means has it 'cured' me.
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I'm on a lot of meds, both for MH and for pain. I feel equally resentful for being tied/dependant on both. It's a common thread I've read on the Forum.
Whether we're on them for life really depends on a lot of things; who we are, what we're doing and how we are dealing with our issues.
I like to think that one day, I'll be more at peace with myself and with those dark disturbing issues and MAYBE the future can be free of meds
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That's what i long for - just to be at peace with myself.
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Me too. To be at peace in my mind would be lovely. I bet loads of people in here want exactly the same.
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I wonder if people suffering depression want to have inner peace more in our lives than those who are not depressive.
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I wonder if people suffering depression want to have inner peace more in our lives than those who are not depressive.
I can only reply with my own opinion and I would guess "yes" because the lack of inner peace has a big impact on our mindset - which, as we know, is typically not very stable most of the time.
Personally, I would love to wake up each day with a resounding amount of inner peace - a level of which enabled me to be fully functional, physically and emotionally, throughout the day.
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But, I'm not sure if most of the people we see getting up in the morning and going about their business, do have that inner peace. Most of them probably don't even care about inner-anything.
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Maybe not an inner peace but sufficient 'peace' to manage with the issues that take some of us up to or over the edge.
We've all known people who don't seem to worry, don't appear upset by the little things and manage through challenges without being rattled be "what if" and "I can't do that - someone will laugh at me" and "but nobody will like me" etc., etc.,
I'd like to be closer to that than the complete head case that I am who can't stay happy or positive for more than short spells.
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I'm going to be a bit controversial here.
I don't think that meds will ever give you inner peace, that has to come from working hard on changing your own mindset. I'm terrible at this but although I always have self doubt to varying degrees I work hard at enjoying life. For me walking helps emensly it makes me feel more at peace with the world and giving me a strength to tackle things head on.
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I don't think that meds will ever give you inner peace, that has to come from working hard on changing your own mindset. I'm terrible at this but although I always have self doubt to varying degrees I work hard at enjoying life.
I agree - I find medication simply keeps things (almost) at a manageable level (most days) but does not prevent the period of complete self-doubt, mind snowballing out of control to depths that can be extremely painful and destructive. I've been on medication for months and although I get longer 'ups' I still get dreadful 'downs' to the point of doubting everything in my mind, turning everything into a negative though, becoming completely self-destructive.
For me walking helps emensly it makes me feel more at peace with the world and giving me a strength to tackle things head on.
I too love to walk. Walking the dog is a great part of the day. Also going for a bike ride when the weather is on our side.
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Blueeyes, I can understand where you are coming from
I would totally agree buttercup.
I think we need to strive for that inner peace. Two themes that regularly come up in this forum (for me, anyway) is the need to live in "the here and now" with our lives "in balance". They sound simple enough but the self-discipline required to apply this to our day-to-day existence must take a lifetime to perfect, if ever at all.
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I think we need to strive for that inner peace. Two themes that regularly come up in this forum (for me, anyway) is the need to live in "the here and now" with our lives "in balance".
Absolutely.
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I take two different meds for high blood pressure, one for cholesterol, three different ones for pain relief and an NSAID which equates to 20 tablets a day. Since 2005 I have been on and off anti depressants which haven't really made any difference to my depression so I'm currently not taking any for that. If I could I wouldn't take any meds at all but I know my physical health would be much worse and I would be a time bomb for either a stroke or heart attack as my BP at worst was 210/160
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I was actually thinking about this earlier on, my ad medication is working great but there is going to come a time in which Ill need to come of them. Because I'm sure you can't be taking ad for your whole life ??
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There are people who do take them for their whole life.
I think it's always daunting to come off them but I know people that have and have recovered, so there is hope
Xxx
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Nothing wrong with being on meds for life, but I prefer to think of myself as coming off them sometime in the distant future, no rush.... when my life improves and the days feel attractive rather than just bearable, that's when I'll readjust my life around being meds free
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I have been told I will probably need a maintenance dose for life, but I would rather that than be as I was.
S x x x x
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People keep mentioning depressive "mindset." Something i really struggle with is what depression actually is. If it'a low mood i can accept it but how can a mindset & negative thinking be an illness. I guess i cant see an alternative to blaming myself for my depression because it's just my personality. It's not depression, it's me.
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Wallow,
sometimes the environmental surroundings of a childs unbringing, which may or may not be combined with other factors such as genetic predispositions or certain life events, can facilitate the development of a mind which almost automatically turns to depressive perspectives. The glass is always seems to be half empty. Many parts of your psychology and thinking are influenced by your environment, we are all like this and you would be highly abnormal if you wasn't. So I do
not believe blaming yourself for negative thoughts is an accurate perception of reality, but it is an obvious perception arising from the depressed mind.
I was raised by a mother who is perpetually pessimistic. She almost always sees the negative view of everything. I learned, indirectly and directly from my mother to think this way. ''I would never get a good job, I would never have any money, good things don't happen to me, only to others, I lack the skills that others have, I will fail at the things I try, etc etc'' It was pointed out to me that I had this negative mindset by a friend at university, I had never even realised that there was a problem with the way that I thought, I hadn't yet learned that perceptions are not always realistic.
I now work in academia, because of my studies in science I often think about things in a way that I never used to and in a way that most people do not. My thinking about the natural world changed with the experience of learning, the environments it has exposed me to, and the career challenges I have had to overcome. My system of thinking is constantly evolving as I learn to adapt as efficiently as possible to the world in which I wan't to live.
We all have ingrained ways of thinking and sometimes these thinking patterns are maladaptive, such as when we constantly see the negative side of things. But this is not your fault in any way. Its just the way you have developed due to your environment and due to your neurochemistry. You can adapt and change just like we all can, as this is the nature of psychology. You are already thinking about the nature of depression and what it is, so you are already in the process of trying to overcome this problem. This shows a willingness to challenge your negative thoughts, and so you should be praised rather than condemned.
With the help of CBT you can learn to challenge your automatic negative thoughts and contemplate the more positive aspects of lifes events. I do this every day and the more I do it the easier it gets. I hope I never stop doing it.
I do not know your medical condition, but for me I also have clinical depressions that occur due to an illness that effects how my brain is functioning. You may have a clinical condition severe enough to be diagnosed with major depression, it is definatly an illness. Alternatively, you may be going through a difficult time in your life and your brain isn't releasing the chemicals how it usually does when you feel happier. Perhaps you have dysthymia, which is a less severe form of depresion but still bad enough to be considered a clinical problem.
The bottom line is, if you are experiencing mental pain, depression or anxiety for an extended period of time, ranging from weeks to years or even most of your life, you are suffering from mental illness.
CBT could help your negative thinking pattern, medication may also be an option.
I have depression, I thought I was a week feeble looser, now I am proud for living with a condition which I did not ask for and I hope soon you will be proud to have experienced the kind of mental pain that most of us do at some point in our lives.
Steve
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Stevie that is a wonderful post and I thank you for taking the time to write it and explain your views and experiences.
Martin
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That was explained very well, Steve
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Thanks Steve for taking the time to write such a thoughtful post. At the moment i keep freaking myself out because i am all too aware that "reality" just doesnt exist & all events and experiences are totally subjective. The past (recent & distant) keeps changing for me as i ruminate myself into deeper & darker places. The only truth i feel i can rely upon is my core belief that i am a vile and worthless person. This is my guiding principle & everything else has just melted into a confusing mess. But who is to say that i am ill & not just open to seeing the truth about the world - which is that life is ultimately pointless & full of pain & suffering. Most religions are actually ways to cope with the "human condition" of suffering (christian idea of original sin) it just so happens that my version is more "realistic" because it recognises that the salvation part is utter bollocks (sorry dont mean to offend anyone - if religion works for you then great, i just think it's a social construct to replace actual futility with a fairytale ending.)
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This - your pain and suffering and, if I may say so, your warped perception - is reality. Surely that can't be subjective if experienced/thought by a number of like-minded people.
To have this thinking, coupled with a belief that you are vile and worthless, is a clear indication that you are currently suffering major depressive thoughts and it is no wonder everything melts into a confusing mess, if this is your "guiding principle"
I can't quite remember why you're reducing Venlafaxine; are you about to try a new med? It wouldn't do any harm trying to get yourself some therapy to explore your thoughts and possibly consider what medication may be of help. Please believe me, once you are suited to a particular antidepressant, this thought process will start to alter.
Hope you're having a good day
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Thanks catb. I was taking myself off venlafaxine but cant quite remember why now. I think I wanted to proove that I wasnt depressed & the antidepressants werent working because it's ME that is the problem. Having a really rubbish weak though & i'd take anything even if there was only a slim chance it would make me feel better. Have spoken to my psychiatrist & i'm back on the usual dose as from today. I just feel too tired to think today. Hope you are having a good day.
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I think I wanted to proove that I wasnt depressed & the antidepressants werent working because it's ME that is the problem.
We'd all like to think WE are broken in some way and we can fix it but it is something deeper and more complex than something 'broken'.
YOU are not the problem.
Something inside isn't doing what it should be doing - maintaining balance of stimulants and reactions the brain should be looking after for us - if chemicals were being created and circulated correctly. WE are as NORMAL as the next person - we just have a few things that aren't the same as other people. WE are NOT broken.
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Thanks for your post but i just cannot see things this way. I just feel like i have failed AGAIN in my attempts to be proactive & come off the drugs & I feel stupid & embarressed about it. "£"
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By returning to the same dose of AD is being proactive, wallow. The general negative thinking you've been displaying of late, has obviously come from reducing the Venlafaxine..... and that is why I questioned you about it.
When we are up to our necks in depression, seldom is there progress. However, often, with the help of AD's, we can start to piece our life and thinking back together again. That is being proactive
There's nothing for you to feel stupid and embarrassed about. All of us have followed the same path.
Hopefully you're feeling a bit better.